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Author Topic: Are progressive taxes ethically justifiable?  (Read 338 times)
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ChezGiven
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2007, 01:16:07 PM »

Think about a flat rate of tax.....

The poor pay contribute the same as the rich. That isnt in 'proportion to the inequality' and hence fails the basic notion of justice.

Whose notion you say....? Yes i know.
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ChezGiven
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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2007, 01:18:17 PM »

Just got told my bonus which sounded okay gross.

Unfortunately the tax I pay is disgusting.

Terrible as this is but I grudge the amount of tax I pay and if the tories put tax cuts in their manifesto I'd start to seriously look.

That being said, the system itself is fairer in principal.

Jeez, I'm getting middle aged and middle class!

You think 40% above £28,000 is disgusting?  Laughing

Try living in the 1970s....  or France.

Go to the US with low taxes but where you pay for heath and education yourself.
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Slugsy
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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2007, 01:24:58 PM »

Just got told my bonus which sounded okay gross.

Unfortunately the tax I pay is disgusting.

Terrible as this is but I grudge the amount of tax I pay and if the tories put tax cuts in their manifesto I'd start to seriously look.

That being said, the system itself is fairer in principal.

Jeez, I'm getting middle aged and middle class!

You think 40% above £28,000 is disgusting?  Laughing

Try living in the 1970s....  or France.

Go to the US with low taxes but where you pay for heath and education yourself.

As I have never worked in the 1970's or France, I cannot comment as I can only base my feelings on my own experience.

Just because other countries have higher rates does not mean it is right, just or not disgusting!  Laughing

To be fair, I fancy one of the Baltic states, they have lovely tax rates! huh

As far as the US goes, I would love to go and work there, I'm paying privately for a lot of my medical services now and my kids are going to a private school so I have no issues with that - unfortunately the fly in the ointment is the wife who has declined my request on a number of occassions - marriage is a costly business!

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Dave
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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2007, 01:25:05 PM »

It's over £34k.
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Slugsy
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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2007, 01:26:45 PM »

It's over £34k.

Beat me to it, £33,300 at moment and £34,600 after April next year
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ChezGiven
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« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2007, 01:29:24 PM »

It's over £34k.

Beat me to it, £33,300 at moment and £34,600 after April next year

It was £28k when i started payin 40%. Not really kept up since then.
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Slugsy
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« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2007, 01:32:07 PM »

It's over £34k.

Beat me to it, £33,300 at moment and £34,600 after April next year

It was £28k when i started payin 40%. Not really kept up since then.

Fair enough, I only know it as I was forced by my work to go to a seminar on personal wealth issues (ha!) recently.
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ChezGiven
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« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2007, 01:32:21 PM »


Just because other countries have higher rates does not mean it is right, just or not disgusting!  Laughing

Then engage in my post that justifies it then.

Quote

To be fair, I fancy one of the Baltic states, they have lovely tax rates! huh


My bro lives in Sweden, now that is a high tax rate. His kid got the best child healthcare on the planet when she nearly died at birth though and they got a room in the hospital 'better than a hotel'.
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Slugsy
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« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2007, 01:37:39 PM »


Just because other countries have higher rates does not mean it is right, just or not disgusting!  Laughing

Then engage in my post that justifies it then.

Quote

To be fair, I fancy one of the Baltic states, they have lovely tax rates! huh


My bro lives in Sweden, now that is a high tax rate. His kid got the best child healthcare on the planet when she nearly died at birth though and they got a room in the hospital 'better than a hotel'.

56% is it not?  Ouch!  But at least as you say you get quality with it. 

My mother in law on the other hand ended up in Sunderland Royal with an emergency operation where they left a plaster inside her and the person beside her catching MRSA!!!!

Montenegro - now that's where its at!  15%!
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BlueStar
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« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2007, 01:38:10 PM »

No matter how much tax, NI, student loan or union contribution gets deducted from my pay slip I've never looked at it and thought "Bastards!  Wish I was back on £5.40 an hour."  Pay rates, and things like London weighting, are decided upon bearing in mind both the cost of living and tax rates.
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GeordieMessiah
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« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2007, 01:40:05 PM »

Does anyone have the figures for the % tax burdens across the EU. I think France/Germany are higest. Uk is high but not that high. The highest %'s of tax revenue goes on health and defence in the uk btw.

https://www.zei.de/download/zei_wp/B05-09.pdf

You're the one with the brains. You tell me. Laughing
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Dave
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« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2007, 01:42:15 PM »

It's over £34k.

Beat me to it, £33,300 at moment and £34,600 after April next year

It was £28k when i started payin 40%. Not really kept up since then.

No wonder you're loaded.
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ChezGiven
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« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2007, 01:42:33 PM »

Does anyone have the figures for the % tax burdens across the EU. I think France/Germany are higest. Uk is high but not that high. The highest %'s of tax revenue goes on health and defence in the uk btw.

https://www.zei.de/download/zei_wp/B05-09.pdf

You're the one with the brains. You tell me. Laughing

Actually, i'm going to print that off and read it on the train tonight.

I'm currently considering a french contract and am trying to work out the difference in tax burden between the UK and France so i can negotiate my basic. Cheers Dave  Thumbs up
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GeordieMessiah
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« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2007, 01:43:25 PM »

Quote
Tax burden on working families in UK rising as it falls in Europe
By Philip Thornton, Economics Correspondent
Published: 30 March 2006
https://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article354514.ece

The tax burden on working families in the UK has risen over the past four years in contrast to a fall across the rest of Europe, new figures showed yesterday.

An analysis of taxes on the earnings of an average household showed the burden had risen in the UK but fallen across the European Union.

However, the figures showed the tax take in the UK was still much lower than its major economic rivals, such as Germany and France.

The survey of the 30 members of the Organisation of Economics Co-operation and Development (OECD) found that most had cut taxes on pay since 2000.

However, the UK data showed that a married couple with one earner and two children faced tax of 27.1 per cent last year, compared with 24.9 per cent in 2001. This contrasted with a fall for the average of the 15 "old" EU nations from 32.1 to 31.6 per cent over the same period.

The OECD said the rise was driven by the 2002 increase in National Insurance payments to fund extra spending in the NHS and schools.

The figure, which is known as the tax wedge, is based on income tax plus employee and employer contributions less cash benefits as a share of labour costs. The UK figure contrasted with 35.7 per cent in Germany, down from 36.8 per cent, and 8.1 per cent in Ireland, down from 12.1 per cent. The French burden rose to 41.7 per cent from 40.5 per cent.

The Institute of Fiscal Studies said its preferred analysis of tax receipts as a share of national income also showed a rise in the UK over the past five years but a fall across the 12 members of the eurozone.

Stuart Adam, its tax and benefits analyst, said: "It seems to be slightly lower across the EU over the last five years but I am not sure I would read too much into that."

The Treasury said the net tax burden on all families with children in the UK has fallen since 1997 and was "significantly below" those in other large European economies.
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GeordieMessiah
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« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2007, 01:46:09 PM »

And whilst I'm doing the Googling/Wiki-ing session - here...this one's for you Apisith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax#Fairness

 
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Rob W
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« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2007, 02:08:33 PM »

People talk about "a tax burden"  - well rich journos do

but they ask for more money for the NHS, defence, houses, overseas aid, more coppers, teachers & nurses

Where do they think the £££ comes from???
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GeordieMessiah
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« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2007, 02:34:06 PM »

People talk about "a tax burden"  - well rich journos do

but they ask for more money for the NHS, defence, houses, overseas aid, more coppers, teachers & nurses

Where do they think the £££ comes from???

But surely we could just grow more Money Trees?
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Parky
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« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2007, 02:34:58 PM »

As I've stated before I don't believe in taxing people.
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GeordieMessiah
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« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2007, 02:42:06 PM »

As I've stated before I don't believe in taxing people.

Yadayadayada, dey yada dey yada dey.  cheesy
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ChezGiven
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« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2007, 02:45:14 PM »

As I've stated before I don't believe in taxing people.

How Republican of you.
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Parky
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« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2007, 02:47:23 PM »

As I've stated before I don't believe in taxing people.

How Republican of you.

...sorry missed out the bit about free healthcare and public transport.
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ChezGiven
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« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2007, 02:49:18 PM »

As I've stated before I don't believe in taxing people.

How Republican of you.

...sorry missed out the bit about free healthcare and public transport.

....and the subsequent financial collapse of the Parky States of Wishful-thinking.
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Parky
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« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2007, 02:51:53 PM »

As I've stated before I don't believe in taxing people.

How Republican of you.

...sorry missed out the bit about free healthcare and public transport.

....and the subsequent financial collapse of the Parky States of Wishful-thinking.

Rubbish.
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Li3nZ
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« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2007, 03:00:30 PM »

People talk about "a tax burden"  - well rich journos do

but they ask for more money for the NHS, defence, houses, overseas aid, more coppers, teachers & nurses

Where do they think the £££ comes from???

Speed Cameras.
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Li3nZ
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« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2007, 03:00:38 PM »

P.S :P
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