i'm afraid i don't understand the use of the word 'danger' here.  while conservative, southern christians can be overbearing, bombastic, judgmental & narrow-minded, where isthe video footage of any of them beheading someone?

well, you poke me with a pen & i'll poke you with a sword...   


but i take your point about it all being about ideas etc...

      but it all depends on where you get poked doesn't it?    pen in the eye vs sword in the pinky toe   

however, when considering 2 opponents bearing serious ill will towards one another, my guess is the lad with the pen will feel hard done by.   

History of victory, eh? I guess 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 were just blips then?

(Sorry, I just find it hard to contribute seriously on the topic - Nihilism Rules, Oh Meh...)

No need to mention WWI - it's part of the Australian psyche (but we hate England and not Turkey for that!)

And you're right, they've had a few wins over the years, was just having a laugh at the representation of uninterrupted victories...

Good.  Thats one more Taliban dead and they didnt even have to hunt for him.

I wondered if Phelps would be there; along with the Phelps Whelps?  Should be funny.  You know, the phelpspack might be the most intellectually honest christians in America. Literalist to them means exactly what it says.  Worryingly, I am told,  there is precious little theological argument against them in America.

Falwell was a prick of the highest order.  His surety of the rapture made him about as rational as the Immams. Pity he missed it.

I wish I could share some optimism of some on here that Islam might 'fall into line'.  Not going to happen. Its inbuilt into the Qu'ran; its unquestioning. When Mohammed figured out how best to sell his new religion, he knew the adherents could be changeable so he made sure the Qu'ran was unchangeable. You dont cherry pick in Islam like some Christian would. You move to a country with Western values or simply ignore it and keep your head down and hope for the best.

The Theology of Islam destroyed any pretence to modernisation over a thousand years ago. Medical advancement stopped, virtuall all the technologies stagnated to a point where the Madrassess teach only theology. If you want an education in modern medicine, science or modernity in any form you have to go west.  But the single most drive of Islam, as it has always been, to enlarge the Ummah everywhere, once by conquest, but by any means at their disposal.  You can never change that by reason. At the other end of the world are pricks like Falwell and of course, Chimpy McFlightsuit, who are making pretty good attempts at Christian conquest in their own right. 

Its difficult to figure out who is the most deluded.

Not any more

It is an interesting question. No I dont think science was stopped from being conducted at the formulation of the big bang. Science has never been disrupted since Galileo and even before then by Islam who carried the ball after the Greeks. The only time science was disrupted was during the Dark ages when religion was the only kid on the block. In any case the religious jump onto the Big bang as some recognition of 'how' the creator started the Universe. This is because they have no conception that a universe might have always existed (in one form or another) and need not be created. But they still cite the big bang as first cause (by a creator) missing the entire point that it still does not explain a creator.

I dont think religious nuts are turning back to science.  They are attemting to promote pseudo science into teaching, especially in a land that is capable of pouring millions of dollars into museums that portray humans and Dinosaurs together. They tried Intelligent Design (which is just a cover for creationism) and they know it sucks every bit as badly and just as easily disproved.

I agree they feel they have the need to 'disprove' evolution but when you examine their objections and questions, all they show is complete ignorance of it, prefering to impliment the God of gaps. Only yesterday I was asked by a devout Christian; as an atheist, what do you think of abiogenesis?  I replied as an atheist I dont think about abiogenesis; abiogenisis has nothing to do with atheism. (More chemistry I expect) but it just goes to show where they are focusing their 'attacks'.  Thats when the hypocracy really bites because you can substantively and evidently 'prove' many things and they still ignore this.


I'm with Parky on this theme. He is quite right to identify where some real danger lies. It is not just 'Southern' Christians; its rife throughout the states and they are weadling their way into increasingly more political and decision making roles. Falwell (Peace be upon him) started Liberty University which is a complete Travesty of that title.  Like many other such uni's they study predominantly bible studies and qualify to find themselves in the Justice Dept. and as White House aides. It is frightening.

They might not behead people (although some would - given the opportunity; especially with African Americans) but they will joyfully press for Homosexuality to become unlawful - there are many who have publically demanded the Death sentence for Homosexulas! (good evening and welcome to 'Shoot the Puff') There are those who profess the sanctity of himan life but presumably ignore those rights to Doctors  and Nurses involved in abortion clinics.  Ther have been several killings.   These people are not only deluded, they are becoming deranged and the worst is Chimpy Mcflightsuit, who states God told him to invade Iraq.  It can only get worse when these people are actively promoting world events to encourage the rapture and have no thought for the future.

Edit:  A little snippet of Jerry Falwell, explaining the 'cause' of 9/11 :

 "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not
be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent
babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the Pagans,
and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the
lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative
lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of
them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger
in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"

Forgive me If I dont shed a tear.

Hasswell: science had always been a big feature of religious education (christianity, islam and buddism) and worship and the two have always been intertwined, until the relitively recent history, where they seem to have split. i believe the split must have come when science managed to exist without a creator, and i think this moment may have been the formulation of the big bang. i may be wrong on both points (the initial idea, and the moment of the split) of course.


evolution is impossible remember, just look in your lunchbox. the banana and peanut butter sandwitch proves this.

The deepest conversation on N-O ever?

My God you are right; how did I not see this? 

The American Christian Right has its most obvious embodiment in President Bush, who is currently further destabilising the most unstable region of the world, and has likened it to a crusade.

My beef isn't with individuals and their own religious beliefs, I've no right to have a beef with someone's private beliefs. My beef is with *organised* religion, which almost without fail brings out the absolute worst parts of the human psyche, and generally promotes bigotry and discrimination with a respectable face.

Yes, very well said.  I have nothing against individuals themselves but when they start to promote very silly ideas that can get people killed, is when I object.

Steven Weinberg, physicist, said it really well: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”