Parky
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« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2007, 10:37:43 AM » |
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Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA. Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager? Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance.  DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses. Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it.  I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce. Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side. Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise. Mourinho's departure in part was imho self-inflicted. If after winning a couple of Premierships the owner says he wants more flair and style in the play, Mourinho can't be surprised when he's sacked if he carries on as he had done for the past 2 years. Winning 2 premierships shouldn't be discounted but if Abramovich says he wants attacking play, he'll keep making changes until he gets what he wants. Abramovich possibly going to his mate Grant saying "Should I get better attacking play from this squad?" and getting the answer "Of course mate, I could easily produce more exciting play" wouldn't have helped Mourinho's cause either! If he wanted more flair and style it might have been an idea to let Jose buy the players HE wanted and not the players recommended or purchased by the various 'power bases' at work at Stamford Bridge. |
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prestonj1989
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« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2007, 10:58:09 AM » |
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Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA. Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager? Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance. DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses. Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it. I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce. Agreed 100% |
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Martin Jol
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« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2007, 11:28:17 AM » |
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Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA. Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager? Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance. DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses. Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it. I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce. Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side. Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise. Mourinho's departure in part was imho self-inflicted. If after winning a couple of Premierships the owner says he wants more flair and style in the play, Mourinho can't be surprised when he's sacked if he carries on as he had done for the past 2 years. Winning 2 premierships shouldn't be discounted but if Abramovich says he wants attacking play, he'll keep making changes until he gets what he wants. Abramovich possibly going to his mate Grant saying "Should I get better attacking play from this squad?" and getting the answer "Of course mate, I could easily produce more exciting play" wouldn't have helped Mourinho's cause either! If he wanted more flair and style it might have been an idea to let Jose buy the players HE wanted and not the players recommended or purchased by the various 'power bases' at work at Stamford Bridge. Couldn't agree more. But Schevchenko is a friend of Abramovich just like Avram Grant. Maybe the real problem is that Abramovich has too many friends?? |
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Parky
Rants & Opinion
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« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2007, 10:49:37 PM » |
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Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA. Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager? Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance. DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses. Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it. I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce. Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side. Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise. Mourinho's departure in part was imho self-inflicted. If after winning a couple of Premierships the owner says he wants more flair and style in the play, Mourinho can't be surprised when he's sacked if he carries on as he had done for the past 2 years. Winning 2 premierships shouldn't be discounted but if Abramovich says he wants attacking play, he'll keep making changes until he gets what he wants. Abramovich possibly going to his mate Grant saying "Should I get better attacking play from this squad?" and getting the answer "Of course mate, I could easily produce more exciting play" wouldn't have helped Mourinho's cause either! If he wanted more flair and style it might have been an idea to let Jose buy the players HE wanted and not the players recommended or purchased by the various 'power bases' at work at Stamford Bridge. Couldn't agree more. But Schevchenko is a friend of Abramovich just like Avram Grant. Maybe the real problem is that Abramovich has too many friends?? I want to be his friend. |
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NE5
Writers Group
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In Zumba Bumba Land
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« Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 12:43:20 AM » |
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Damien Comolli is for me the main reason Jol is out of a job at Spurs and the schemer behind the disgraceful handling of a manager who delivered 5th in the PL and almost got them into the CL recently. Comolli was behind the campaign for Ramos and has been chasing him ever since the summer when apparently Spurs directors were 'dissapointed' with Spurs 5th place which says a lot more about them than Jol. Comolli has wanted a man who can fit into the Spurs continental DOF set up and he has also wanted more control something which Jol hasn't been happy with and fought allegedly. It is no surprise to me that Jol has sought advice from the LMA. Avram Grant is another of this type. A manager with paper thin CV has imo cajoled and schemed his way into Chelsea and also imo been whispering in dark corners agains Mourinho (great CV one of the best managers in the game). How the f*** did one of the best managers in the world lose his job and this strange character with hardly any football experience outside of Israel wind up as Chelsea manager? Happy Harry has already come up against two of them almost as if they were stalking him, firstly Velimir Zajec at Pompey, then Sir Clive Woodward from the world of Rugby at Southampton...Happily Harry has outlived them both, perhaps his London bred infighting skills made the differance. DOF's are there to take the pressure off the manager and handle the day to day stuff that affects the side and be a strong influence in long term development which would include player purchuses. Thus far they just look like scheming c***s to me. When Ramos fails I'd like to see Comolli walk as well, but somehow I doubt it. I would be against a DOF system at Newcastle unless expressly chosen and desired by Allardyce. Agreed 100% seconded and thirded ........ |
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ChezGiven
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« Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 01:12:52 AM » |
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I'm not sure there is a lot of evidence for a DoF in the english league but its important to note how bigger, better clubs have moved on and are performing far better. It has to be right for the club though. You cant impose an ideology on a club without the decision making structures being in place and the right culture being there. NUFC isnt ready for a DoF as our manager isnt ready for one. Otherwise he would have sorted it already.
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Ironskull
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« Reply #56 on: Yesterday at 01:06:24 PM » |
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The thing is, just about any system is a compromise unless you have a managerial giant such as AW or SAF. And most circumstamces cannot be scripted, so clubs need to adapt quickly to the unexpected. In real life as opposed to football, it happens all the time; systems cannot be rigid, they have to adapted to the skills and aptitudes of the people available. It's not uncommon to find businesses similar on the outside, but with very different operating systems and corporate cultures.
So, most clubs have to compromise. Levy at Spurs took his advice from Alan Sugar who told him that he (Sugar), knew little about football and that he (Levy) would be the same and should have an experienced football person as his right hand man. That's where the DoF role at Spurs grew from, though it might be said that Venables was a DoF when he was known as CEO in the early 80s and Doug Livermore and Ray Clemence were in charge.
I'm a bit surprised at the hostility among football followers towards the DoF system. It's not surprising that managers and therefore pundits and "experts" themselves are opposed to it though. We're all used to naive and ignorant Club Chairmen, and unless we're living on the moon, none of us will be ignorant of some of the excesses of all-powerful managers at clubs from the top of the game to the bottom. How many of the managers you've encountered albeit at a distance, really inspire you with their clarity of thought, man-management skills, tactical insight, honesty and so on? How many of them have been great coaches but stretched beyond their abilities when asked to manage? Ignorant chairmen and unsophisticated managers is the basic combination that most clubs have used since the game began. I was going to say wide-boy managers but it would be unfair, but plenty of them have in the past been wide-boy types. And yes unsophisticated is an unfair generalisation where some are concerned, but....
Which leads back to Spurs. Who on earth, in terms of big-name managers would have joined them 3 years ago? No-one. OK Santini did, but putting Jol in as 1st team coach with a more limited remit than a traditional manager, working within a DoF system, makes sense to me. Jol's no slouch as a coach, but by the same token, he's had his fair share of detractors and doubters; and the criticisms made of him have been analytical and precise - not knee-jerk criticisms. The people that put him there decided he needed to be replaced, so they sought out a replacement. That's their job. I don't feel sorry for Jol - he's been paid off handsomely and now Spurs have a man with a better track-record. Jol was probably the best they could have expected at the time and now they've improved on him... Time will tell on that one.
Anyway that's enough. I'm a Spurs fan and a guest here so I won't go on except to say that of course the founders of Spurs were inspired by a Northumbrian, and I've just had a fantastic week's holiday with my kids visiting places like Alnwick and Amble, and loved every minute of it, just as I used to as a kid.
Adios and if you have to finish above us then I hope we're fifth again.
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bobyule
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« Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 01:17:56 PM » |
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Europeans have a different approach to descision making as we both have experienced Chez.
That sounds interesting. Could you expand on this 'different approach'? For me it's fairly simple. In any business, if you're putting someone in charge of producing results (ie the manager), you have to give him the means to achieve those results. Choosing staff correctly is an absolutely vital part of achieving results, and if you compromise the manager's authority in that area, then you'll have problems. |
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Baggio
Behind Enemy Lines
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« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 01:57:47 PM » |
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The thing is, just about any system is a compromise unless you have a managerial giant such as AW or SAF. And most circumstamces cannot be scripted, so clubs need to adapt quickly to the unexpected. In real life as opposed to football, it happens all the time; systems cannot be rigid, they have to adapted to the skills and aptitudes of the people available. It's not uncommon to find businesses similar on the outside, but with very different operating systems and corporate cultures.
So, most clubs have to compromise. Levy at Spurs took his advice from Alan Sugar who told him that he (Sugar), knew little about football and that he (Levy) would be the same and should have an experienced football person as his right hand man. That's where the DoF role at Spurs grew from, though it might be said that Venables was a DoF when he was known as CEO in the early 80s and Doug Livermore and Ray Clemence were in charge.
I'm a bit surprised at the hostility among football followers towards the DoF system. It's not surprising that managers and therefore pundits and "experts" themselves are opposed to it though. We're all used to naive and ignorant Club Chairmen, and unless we're living on the moon, none of us will be ignorant of some of the excesses of all-powerful managers at clubs from the top of the game to the bottom. How many of the managers you've encountered albeit at a distance, really inspire you with their clarity of thought, man-management skills, tactical insight, honesty and so on? How many of them have been great coaches but stretched beyond their abilities when asked to manage? Ignorant chairmen and unsophisticated managers is the basic combination that most clubs have used since the game began. I was going to say wide-boy managers but it would be unfair, but plenty of them have in the past been wide-boy types. And yes unsophisticated is an unfair generalisation where some are concerned, but....
Which leads back to Spurs. Who on earth, in terms of big-name managers would have joined them 3 years ago? No-one. OK Santini did, but putting Jol in as 1st team coach with a more limited remit than a traditional manager, working within a DoF system, makes sense to me. Jol's no slouch as a coach, but by the same token, he's had his fair share of detractors and doubters; and the criticisms made of him have been analytical and precise - not knee-jerk criticisms. The people that put him there decided he needed to be replaced, so they sought out a replacement. That's their job. I don't feel sorry for Jol - he's been paid off handsomely and now Spurs have a man with a better track-record. Jol was probably the best they could have expected at the time and now they've improved on him... Time will tell on that one.
Anyway that's enough. I'm a Spurs fan and a guest here so I won't go on except to say that of course the founders of Spurs were inspired by a Northumbrian, and I've just had a fantastic week's holiday with my kids visiting places like Alnwick and Amble, and loved every minute of it, just as I used to as a kid.
Adios and if you have to finish above us then I hope we're fifth again.
Good post, it'll be wasted on here though. People need to realise football is much bigger than the first team and to transform this club it'll take more than one man to do everything, do people honestly think fat Sam will sort our youth system out so we can attract other clubs youngsters like the other big clubs do? When was the last time a young British lad left another clubs set up for ours? Johnnypd also makes a good post when he talks about Milne and how we would have been better off keeping him on and getting him to help run the other side of the club, we didn't though and sacked everyone, destroying all of Sir Bobby's good work and then had to go to the trouble of getting another manager in to build it up again, he didn't work out so they were all sacked and Roeder was expected to completely change the club, when he took charge the club had one scout on it's books, for a so called big club that's f****** shocking. Look at the jobs both Ramos and Allardyce have taken on this season and fat Sam has a lot more work ahead of him out of the two, Ramos will walk into Spurs and only have to worry about the first team squad, their youth team (that has been buying some top youngsters) scouts etc have all been taken care of by Comolli, Allardyce on the other hand will have to come here and transform the lot himself while trying to coach the first team squad and focus on picking up 3 points every week, it's too big of a job for one man and he won't get the 8 years he had at Bolton to get it right either. |
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"Maradona, turns like a little eel, he comes away from trouble. Little squat man comes inside Butcher - leaves him for dead - outside Fenwick - leaves him for dead - and puts the ball away. And that is why Maradona's the greatest player in the world."
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Lotus
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« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 03:22:12 PM » |
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The thing is, just about any system is a compromise unless you have a managerial giant such as AW or SAF. And most circumstamces cannot be scripted, so clubs need to adapt quickly to the unexpected. In real life as opposed to football, it happens all the time; systems cannot be rigid, they have to adapted to the skills and aptitudes of the people available. It's not uncommon to find businesses similar on the outside, but with very different operating systems and corporate cultures.
So, most clubs have to compromise. Levy at Spurs took his advice from Alan Sugar who told him that he (Sugar), knew little about football and that he (Levy) would be the same and should have an experienced football person as his right hand man. That's where the DoF role at Spurs grew from, though it might be said that Venables was a DoF when he was known as CEO in the early 80s and Doug Livermore and Ray Clemence were in charge.
I'm a bit surprised at the hostility among football followers towards the DoF system. It's not surprising that managers and therefore pundits and "experts" themselves are opposed to it though. We're all used to naive and ignorant Club Chairmen, and unless we're living on the moon, none of us will be ignorant of some of the excesses of all-powerful managers at clubs from the top of the game to the bottom. How many of the managers you've encountered albeit at a distance, really inspire you with their clarity of thought, man-management skills, tactical insight, honesty and so on? How many of them have been great coaches but stretched beyond their abilities when asked to manage? Ignorant chairmen and unsophisticated managers is the basic combination that most clubs have used since the game began. I was going to say wide-boy managers but it would be unfair, but plenty of them have in the past been wide-boy types. And yes unsophisticated is an unfair generalisation where some are concerned, but....
Which leads back to Spurs. Who on earth, in terms of big-name managers would have joined them 3 years ago? No-one. OK Santini did, but putting Jol in as 1st team coach with a more limited remit than a traditional manager, working within a DoF system, makes sense to me. Jol's no slouch as a coach, but by the same token, he's had his fair share of detractors and doubters; and the criticisms made of him have been analytical and precise - not knee-jerk criticisms. The people that put him there decided he needed to be replaced, so they sought out a replacement. That's their job. I don't feel sorry for Jol - he's been paid off handsomely and now Spurs have a man with a better track-record. Jol was probably the best they could have expected at the time and now they've improved on him... Time will tell on that one.
Anyway that's enough. I'm a Spurs fan and a guest here so I won't go on except to say that of course the founders of Spurs were inspired by a Northumbrian, and I've just had a fantastic week's holiday with my kids visiting places like Alnwick and Amble, and loved every minute of it, just as I used to as a kid.
Adios and if you have to finish above us then I hope we're fifth again.
Good post, it'll be wasted on here though. People need to realise football is much bigger than the first team and to transform this club it'll take more than one man to do everything, do people honestly think fat Sam will sort our youth system out so we can attract other clubs youngsters like the other big clubs do? When was the last time a young British lad left another clubs set up for ours? Johnnypd also makes a good post when he talks about Milne and how we would have been better off keeping him on and getting him to help run the other side of the club, we didn't though and sacked everyone, destroying all of Sir Bobby's good work and then had to go to the trouble of getting another manager in to build it up again, he didn't work out so they were all sacked and Roeder was expected to completely change the club, when he took charge the club had one scout on it's books, for a so called big club that's f****** shocking. Look at the jobs both Ramos and Allardyce have taken on this season and fat Sam has a lot more work ahead of him out of the two, Ramos will walk into Spurs and only have to worry about the first team squad, their youth team (that has been buying some top youngsters) scouts etc have all been taken care of by Comolli, Allardyce on the other hand will have to come here and transform the lot himself while trying to coach the first team squad and focus on picking up 3 points every week, it's too big of a job for one man and he won't get the 8 years he had at Bolton to get it right either. Very logical, probably why you haven't had any replies..... maybe BSA has plans to employ various people to take over those aspects of the job anyway. |
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