Jonny2J
 Offline
|
 |
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2007, 11:08:05 AM » |
|
I know it hasn't been the easiest of rides over the years for us.
But at times I am quite gutted I'm only 22 and never got the chance to see the likes of Tony Green, Gazza during the 86/87 season (which me dad never shuts up about) Nattrass, Hibbett, Tommy Craig etc in their pomp for us.
Football in the days of standing terraces etc was better than now johnny, thats the main difference. It was great seeing those individual players, but believe me, supporting Newcastle now is watching a far better club than those days. You will grow up and talk about Shearer, Rob Lee, Ginola, Sir Les and the title challenge in 1996. People of my age never had anything like that. It is less of a working mans game now, and so has suffered. Those players were players who were closer to the public than too many players now. I know mate, I'm grateful that I can talk about such a team and some of the players that we have had over the past 15 or 16 years since I started supporting the team. Although the Promotion season is still the highlight for me, everything about that season was perfect. As everyone knows I do take quite an interest in the History of the game as such, one thing I've noticed as well know the out and out goalscorer is now becoming a thing of the past. I've been watching some documentaries lately in particular on Ian Rush and Gary Lineker, players like this are dying out now, it's such a shame, as there's so much emphasis now on fitness, work rate etc players like this are now becoming gold dust. Although tbf to Rushie, he was always the first line of defence and he didn't half work his arse off, fantastic player. On the same note in and around the same time, Aldo as well, hell of a centre forward who rarely gets a mention now for what he was. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
alex
Rants & Opinion
Offline
|
|
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2007, 11:13:40 AM » |
|
Very true 2J. One of the reasons Ian Rush was so good was because he worked so hard for the team.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Brunswick Glue
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2007, 11:18:02 AM » |
|
Very true 2J. One of the reasons Ian Rush was so good was because he worked so hard for the team.
That team could have so easily dominated Europe with some of the players they had, shame about the fans letting them down, although that's a debate I don't want to bring up in this discussion. I mean Rush and Aldridge, both prolific and would be worth how much now? We all know the genius of Pedro. Barnes on his club form was one of the best players on the planet before that injury robbed him of his pace. Hansen we all know was fantastic, Stevie Nicol, criminally underrated by fans now etc. Before any makes a remark I'm not a Liverpool fan, just a fan of good football.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
alex
Rants & Opinion
Offline
|
|
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2007, 11:21:22 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Brunswick Glue
|
|
|
|
Mick
Offline
Sacked or not, who cares?
|
|
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2007, 11:24:12 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2007, 11:24:12 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
Oh it is, Jan Molby, there's tons of them. I think a lot of the reason as well behind this is because the Sky fans of today only saw these players as they were coming into retirement so just dismiss them so easily. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
NE5
Writers Group
Offline
In Zumba Bumba Land
|
|
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2007, 11:25:34 AM » |
|
Very true 2J. One of the reasons Ian Rush was so good was because he worked so hard for the team.
That team could have so easily dominated Europe with some of the players they had, shame about the fans letting them down, although that's a debate I don't want to bring up in this discussion. I mean Rush and Aldridge, both prolific and would be worth how much now? We all know the genius of Pedro. Barnes on his club form was one of the best players on the planet before that injury robbed him of his pace. Hansen we all know was fantastic, Stevie Nicol, criminally underrated by fans now etc. Before any makes a remark I'm not a Liverpool fan, just a fan of good football. A few things spring to mind here. One is that Dalglish improved an already top quality side into one which had more flair and became even better. Just what was needed when he came to Newcastle. Which makes it even more difficult to understand why he did what he did. Two is that John Barnes in a way mirrors what Irving Nattrass maybe could have been. Barnes was a talented player playing within himself at Watford, but moving to a club with real winners in it rubbed off on him and he stepped up a gear. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
alex
Rants & Opinion
Offline
|
|
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2007, 11:29:11 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
Oh it is, Jan Molby, there's tons of them. I think a lot of the reason as well behind this is because the Sky fans of today only saw these players as they were coming into retirement so just dismiss them so easily. Aye, Molby man. What a passer. He never went more than 10 yards from the centre-circle (exaggeration, but you know what I mean) but he used to run the show. Mark Lawrenson was a class centre-half too and was excellent alongside Hansen, who was more of a sweeper. Graeme Souness was one of the best midfielders in the world at his peak. Then you had people like Craig Johnston. And Kenny Dalglish was probably the best of the lot. They had some players in the 80s. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Brunswick Glue
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2007, 11:30:27 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
Oh it is, Jan Molby, there's tons of them. I think a lot of the reason as well behind this is because the Sky fans of today only saw these players as they were coming into retirement so just dismiss them so easily. Aye, Molby man. What a passer. He never went more than 10 yards from the centre-circle (exaggeration, but you know what I mean) but he used to run the show. Mark Lawrenson was a class centre-half too and was excellent alongside Hansen, who was more of a sweeper. Graeme Souness was one of the best midfielders in the world at his peak. Then you had people like Craig Johnston. And Kenny Dalglish was probably the best of the lot. I got laughed at on another board for saying Souness would walk into any side right now.  Lawro man, he was absolutely lightning, great defensive coach as well.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
NE5
Writers Group
Offline
In Zumba Bumba Land
|
|
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2007, 11:30:29 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****. I've got a theory about this, which fits the way he played at Watford too. Its just that he was a player who needed a lot of the ball and good options around him. When he played for Liverpool, they gave him the ball and read his game, when he played for England it was more of a level playing field and he shrank into a shell too much. Things like this boil down to personality and the desire to make things happen etc |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2007, 11:32:46 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****. I've got a theory about this, which fits the way he played at Watford too. Its just that he was a player who needed a lot of the ball and good options around him. When he played for Liverpool, they gave him the ball and read his game, when he played for England it was more of a level playing field and he shrank into a shell too much. Things like this boil down to personality and the desire to make things happen etc It's all down to mentality and how mentally tough you are that separates the greats from the also rans, same reason why Jenas will never be a top player, he's got no bottle when it comes down to the crunch. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
NE5
Writers Group
Offline
In Zumba Bumba Land
|
|
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2007, 11:33:57 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
Oh it is, Jan Molby, there's tons of them. I think a lot of the reason as well behind this is because the Sky fans of today only saw these players as they were coming into retirement so just dismiss them so easily. Aye, Molby man. What a passer. He never went more than 10 yards from the centre-circle (exaggeration, but you know what I mean) but he used to run the show. Mark Lawrenson was a class centre-half too and was excellent alongside Hansen, who was more of a sweeper. Graeme Souness was one of the best midfielders in the world at his peak. Then you had people like Craig Johnston. And Kenny Dalglish was probably the best of the lot. I got laughed at on another board for saying Souness would walk into any side right now. Lawro man, he was absolutely lightning, great defensive coach as well. Unfortunately, Souness was the Roy Keane and Steven Gerrard of his day in this country, and he was a true world class player. He nearly signed for Newcastle from the smoggies too. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2007, 11:36:05 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
Oh it is, Jan Molby, there's tons of them. I think a lot of the reason as well behind this is because the Sky fans of today only saw these players as they were coming into retirement so just dismiss them so easily. Aye, Molby man. What a passer. He never went more than 10 yards from the centre-circle (exaggeration, but you know what I mean) but he used to run the show. Mark Lawrenson was a class centre-half too and was excellent alongside Hansen, who was more of a sweeper. Graeme Souness was one of the best midfielders in the world at his peak. Then you had people like Craig Johnston. And Kenny Dalglish was probably the best of the lot. I got laughed at on another board for saying Souness would walk into any side right now. Lawro man, he was absolutely lightning, great defensive coach as well. Unfortunately, Souness was the Roy Keane and Steven Gerrard of his day in this country, and he was a true world class player. He nearly signed for Newcastle from the smoggies too. From what I've seen I don't rate Gerrard as high as Souness. I'd also like to note on Gerrard, I never once saw him get the better of Roy Keane or Vieira, even when Keane was into his 30's, Gerrard never once dominated him in a game. I rate Bryan Robson as the best of the lot though.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
ChezGiven
Rants & Opinion
Offline
|
|
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2007, 11:36:56 AM » |
|
Very true 2J. One of the reasons Ian Rush was so good was because he worked so hard for the team.
That team could have so easily dominated Europe with some of the players they had, shame about the fans letting them down, although that's a debate I don't want to bring up in this discussion. I mean Rush and Aldridge, both prolific and would be worth how much now? We all know the genius of Pedro. Barnes on his club form was one of the best players on the planet before that injury robbed him of his pace. Hansen we all know was fantastic, Stevie Nicol, criminally underrated by fans now etc. Before any makes a remark I'm not a Liverpool fan, just a fan of good football. A few things spring to mind here. One is that Dalglish improved an already top quality side into one which had more flair and became even better. Just what was needed when he came to Newcastle. Which makes it even more difficult to understand why he did what he did. Two is that John Barnes in a way mirrors what Irving Nattrass maybe could have been. Barnes was a talented player playing within himself at Watford, but moving to a club with real winners in it rubbed off on him and he stepped up a gear. Totally. Dalglish was a phenomenal player, some of the play between him and Rushy had to be seen to be believed. I remember one pass he played, was close to genius. He was on the right wing, ball comes out of defence into opposition half. He had his back to goal but flicks the ball first time with the outside of his right boot so the ball curls into the inside right channel inch-perfect for Rush to run onto in between two defenders and slot it from outisde the box. Jan Molby's passing was great but his scouse-danish accent was better  EDIT - was Dalglish better than Keegan? (who he replaced) |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2007, 11:39:29 AM » |
|
All of the Scouse fans rate Kenny as the best they've ever seen, personally from what I've seen I would say so as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
Micktoon
Offline
|
|
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2007, 11:40:39 AM » |
|
Kennedy was a mackem if my memory serves me correctly. Nattrass was a far better player than Kennedy, however the latter part of his carrier was blighted by injury.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
To the man who stated "it's a hard life" Voltaire replied "compared to what".
Supporting The Toon, that's what!!!!
|
|
|
|
alex
Rants & Opinion
Offline
|
|
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2007, 11:40:46 AM » |
|
I almost forgot - I saw Bruce Grobbelaar in Blue Coyote the other week. f*** knows what he was up to in the Toon.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Brunswick Glue
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2007, 11:42:25 AM » |
|
Alex how I've missed our chats putting the history of football to rights in the Trent.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
NE5
Writers Group
Offline
In Zumba Bumba Land
|
|
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2007, 11:43:12 AM » |
|
Ronnie Whelan is another player people often forget about. And it's amazing how many players (Pedro included) rate John Barnes as the best player they ever played with.
Oh it is, Jan Molby, there's tons of them. I think a lot of the reason as well behind this is because the Sky fans of today only saw these players as they were coming into retirement so just dismiss them so easily. Aye, Molby man. What a passer. He never went more than 10 yards from the centre-circle (exaggeration, but you know what I mean) but he used to run the show. Mark Lawrenson was a class centre-half too and was excellent alongside Hansen, who was more of a sweeper. Graeme Souness was one of the best midfielders in the world at his peak. Then you had people like Craig Johnston. And Kenny Dalglish was probably the best of the lot. I got laughed at on another board for saying Souness would walk into any side right now. Lawro man, he was absolutely lightning, great defensive coach as well. Unfortunately, Souness was the Roy Keane and Steven Gerrard of his day in this country, and he was a true world class player. He nearly signed for Newcastle from the smoggies too. From what I've seen I don't rate Gerrard as high as Souness. I'd also like to note on Gerrard, I never once saw him get the better of Roy Keane or Vieira, even when Keane was into his 30's, Gerrard never once dominated him in a game. I rate Bryan Robson as the best of the lot though. yes, I think Souness was better than Gerrard. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
NE5
Writers Group
Offline
In Zumba Bumba Land
|
|
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2007, 11:45:59 AM » |
|
Very true 2J. One of the reasons Ian Rush was so good was because he worked so hard for the team.
That team could have so easily dominated Europe with some of the players they had, shame about the fans letting them down, although that's a debate I don't want to bring up in this discussion. I mean Rush and Aldridge, both prolific and would be worth how much now? We all know the genius of Pedro. Barnes on his club form was one of the best players on the planet before that injury robbed him of his pace. Hansen we all know was fantastic, Stevie Nicol, criminally underrated by fans now etc. Before any makes a remark I'm not a Liverpool fan, just a fan of good football. A few things spring to mind here. One is that Dalglish improved an already top quality side into one which had more flair and became even better. Just what was needed when he came to Newcastle. Which makes it even more difficult to understand why he did what he did. Two is that John Barnes in a way mirrors what Irving Nattrass maybe could have been. Barnes was a talented player playing within himself at Watford, but moving to a club with real winners in it rubbed off on him and he stepped up a gear. Totally. Dalglish was a phenomenal player, some of the play between him and Rushy had to be seen to be believed. I remember one pass he played, was close to genius. He was on the right wing, ball comes out of defence into opposition half. He had his back to goal but flicks the ball first time with the outside of his right boot so the ball curls into the inside right channel inch-perfect for Rush to run onto in between two defenders and slot it from outisde the box. Jan Molby's passing was great but his scouse-danish accent was better EDIT - was Dalglish better than Keegan? (who he replaced) I meant as a manager mate, but yes you are right he probably improved them as a player too. In fact, if my memory is correct, the 3 players who played for Liverpool in 1978 that didn't play in 1977 were Dalglish, Hansen and Souness. Keegan, Dalglish and Beardsley were all great players on merit though. Food for thought though, is who has been the most successful British player who played overseas ? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2007, 11:49:07 AM » |
|
Terry McDermott as well actually, hell of a player, could run all day. I'm struggling at the moment NE5 to think of anyone beyond Keegan, as he wasn't just a success on the pitch, he was a success off it as well, integrated himself completely with the culture and the way of life. (And I'm not just talking about those rumours either. ) |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
alex
Rants & Opinion
Offline
|
|
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2007, 11:49:29 AM » |
|
Keegan arguably made the biggest impact overseas.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Brunswick Glue
|
|
|
|
Mick
Offline
Sacked or not, who cares?
|
|
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2007, 11:50:34 AM » |
|
Very true 2J. One of the reasons Ian Rush was so good was because he worked so hard for the team.
That team could have so easily dominated Europe with some of the players they had, shame about the fans letting them down, although that's a debate I don't want to bring up in this discussion. I mean Rush and Aldridge, both prolific and would be worth how much now? We all know the genius of Pedro. Barnes on his club form was one of the best players on the planet before that injury robbed him of his pace. Hansen we all know was fantastic, Stevie Nicol, criminally underrated by fans now etc. Before any makes a remark I'm not a Liverpool fan, just a fan of good football. A few things spring to mind here. One is that Dalglish improved an already top quality side into one which had more flair and became even better. Just what was needed when he came to Newcastle. Which makes it even more difficult to understand why he did what he did. Two is that John Barnes in a way mirrors what Irving Nattrass maybe could have been. Barnes was a talented player playing within himself at Watford, but moving to a club with real winners in it rubbed off on him and he stepped up a gear. Totally. Dalglish was a phenomenal player, some of the play between him and Rushy had to be seen to be believed. I remember one pass he played, was close to genius. He was on the right wing, ball comes out of defence into opposition half. He had his back to goal but flicks the ball first time with the outside of his right boot so the ball curls into the inside right channel inch-perfect for Rush to run onto in between two defenders and slot it from outisde the box. Jan Molby's passing was great but his scouse-danish accent was better EDIT - was Dalglish better than Keegan? (who he replaced) I meant as a manager mate, but yes you are right he probably improved them as a player too. In fact, if my memory is correct, the 3 players who played for Liverpool in 1978 that didn't play in 1977 were Dalglish, Hansen and Souness. Keegan, Dalglish and Beardsley were all great players on merit though. Food for thought though, is who has been the most successful British player who played overseas ? The best export for me is Keegan out of those mentioned. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
NE5
Writers Group
Offline
In Zumba Bumba Land
|
|
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2007, 11:51:43 AM » |
|
Well, the ONLY British player to play abroad and win the European player of the year while doing so, was Keegan.
I think it is easy to underestimate hunger and desire in players. Dalglish and other players had more technical ability than Keegan, and I underestimated desire and hunger too once, but now I don't. You only have to look at Keegan. In the 1974 Cup Final people commented how we had individual flair, but Liverpool had by far the most desire, winning mentality and togetherness in the team and absolutely steamrollered us. If you want something badly enough, you make sure you get it, is what I think quite often now.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Jonny2J
Offline
|
|
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2007, 11:51:58 AM » |
|
I know not on the same level or anything as such but Paul Ince was quite a success at Inter.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive." |
|
|
|
|
