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By the time Given is 35-36 and ageing a bit, krul will be hitting 22/23, about the age when he will be ready for a regular first team spot. Looks like a natural progression to me.

I'd rather set my pubes on fire and beat the flames out with a rusty axe than sell Given - he's one of the best keepers in the country.

If we are going to bring Igor Akinfeev instead the Ok

but for now,Hell No,not in the next 2 years thats for sure..

Probably the most unpopular thread title since "Keep Souness" - but think about it.

If Tim Krul maintains his progress he is soon going to need to be at least a No.2 keeper in a Premiership squad, that probably means if we're to keep him then one of the senior goalkeepers will have to make way.

Shay Given is a top keeper and an excellent club man but in my opinion so is Steve Harper.
I don't think there is much to seperate them but Shay has a stronger personality and made it clear he would not be No 2, while Harper has been content with that role.
A lot of us rate them equally, but Shay would have a higher market value and I'd guess a much higher salary. Therefore would it make sense to cash in on him and invest the money elsewhere ?
One thing is sure, when they're all fit, 3 into 2 won't go and something will have to give eventually.

He is the best in the League IMO. Put him behind Chelsea's defence (well maybe not this year ;) ) and Chelsea would be unstopable.

Bullshit

How to argue your point, backing up your opinion.......

Can't kick, can't command his box, absolutely F***ING WOEFUL at penalties and in general no presence whatsoever.

He's just a shot-stopper, that's it.  I've made my feelings on Given heard pretty often.

Can't kick, can't command his box, absolutely F***ING WOEFUL at penalties and in general no presence whatsoever.

He's just a shot-stopper, that's it.  I've made my feelings on Given heard pretty often.

Although our best ever keeper. Name one better.

How the F*** does that automatically make him one of the best in the league now.

Just speaks volumes for how shit our keepers have been.

You didn't answer the question.

How the F*** does that automatically make him one of the best in the league now.

Just speaks volumes for how shit our keepers have been.

Those things don't make him a bad keeper, they are secondary areas in which others are better - fair enough.

In terms of stopping shots, which is the single most important thing a keeper has to do, he's amongst the best in the league IMO.

I think organising the back four and controlling the box are equally as important as shot stopping, tbh.

I think we can all thank our lucky stars you're not in charge mate, for even considering it. You're not actually Graeme Souness are you? Jesus Christ.......

Can't kick, can't command his box, absolutely F***ING WOEFUL at penalties and in general no presence whatsoever.

He's just a shot-stopper, that's it. I've made my feelings on Given heard pretty often.

He's a trophy keeper that makes the sheepfans that are a majority bleat about him being world class. I do like the guy, and he is a very good shot stopper. But that shot stopping is the spectacular part of a goalkeepers game, and people do tend to ignore the none-spectacular parts of a goalkeepers game that Sima mentions, which Shay certainly doesn't excel at.

His form at the moment is poor too, even his shot stopping hasn't been at its usual standard this season.

He's a trophy keeper that makes the sheepfans that are a majority bleat about him being world class. I do like the guy, and he is a very good shot stopper. But that shot stopping is the spectacular part of a goalkeepers game, and people do tend to ignore the none-spectacular parts of a goalkeepers game that Sima mentions, which Shay certainly doesn't excel at.

His form at the moment is poor too, even his shot stopping hasn't been at its usual standard this season.

Why ? Did Souness ever imply we should sell Given ?  I must have missed that.
You obviously missed the question mark after the title as well.
My point of discussion is what is the best and most practical solution to having 3 goalkeepers on our books who are all good enough to play at the top level.
Judging by what I've read so far it would seem the majority think that Given should never be sold at any price.
I'd probably be inclined to agree but I'd think very carefully about it WHEN all 3 are ready.

No No and no IMO. Shay is a world class keeper and to sell him would be madness tbh. Granted he may decide to leave to go what he may class as a bigger club more likely of winning silverware but I for one would be gutted to see him go.

:(

blleeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Wwuuuuuuummmmmm

I wouldn't sell him purely because I don't think we could get better. Doesn't make me a sheep thompers.

No. You implied someone else was because they wouldn't sell him either.

Krul, in his one match, played better than Shay has all season.

I wouldn't sell him either. I'm not a sheep.

Yes, I am here to wind up the thickos that give our club the reputation it has among other fans. When I was talking to my Man Utd supporting work friend yesterday about the result on New Years Day he said "Gonna win the league now are yas?"

Because thats how others view us, because we have a large section that think Given is world class, that Roeder is mint, that Shola is the new Shearer and we'll be challenging for trophies next season.

Get f***ing real man. He's a good shot stopper (at times) and doesn't make many howlers. He's a midget,  has F*** all aerial ability, and he has no command of the defence, which is surely one of the contributing factors as to why its shit.

Now I like Given, but the whole "he's world class I wudnt sell im for 50 million punnnds maaan" crack and other shit that some of our fans come out with is just plain cringeworthy.

Thompers, I've been looking for a while and I still haven't found your brain.

If there's one thing supporters of other clubs recognize it's that Given is World Class. In fact, the only people I've ever seen to shite him seems to be a small overly cynical segment of our own support.

Given is quite literally second to none in shot-stopping. That can't be argued. Even ignoring all other aspects of his game, he is quite possibly the best in the world in the most important part of goalkeeping. That alone should mark him as a quality keeper.

On top of that, I have no idea where this drivel about his box command and aerial ability being shite are coming from. Yes, he's not as good at those as he is at shot stopping, but in all my years of watching him play I have never seen any sort of conclusive evidence to tell me that his defense of the box or aerial ability is any less than that of a decent Premiership keeper. It also bears mention that the quality of the defense is probably one of the reasons that Shay looks less dominant in the box than he should. It's a lot easier to control the box with Thuram and Cannavaro than it is with Bramble and Boumsong.

The only reason he keeps getting unduly attacked in these areas is because a. His godly shot-stopping ability makes them seem bad in comparison and b. Cynics will dig hard for ANYTHING to slag off a decent player with. For me, Shay's only weakness is that his distribution is admittedly utter shite. But I can live with this, to discard him for this weakness would be like writing off Henry because he can't score headers.

I'm a realist. I know we're mid table, I know a lot of our players are shite, I know that Ameobi should probably be shipped off to the Championship ASAP.

But, being a realist, the one fact that I can acknowledge without a doubt is that Shay Given is World Class.

Can't believe some people seriously want to sell him. I hope they're on the wind-up.

If they are being 100% serious then the numb C***s need their heads looking at imo.... :roll: :roll:

"I'd love to play as many games as I can - I've said that all along.

"I want to play as many games as I can for Newcastle and Ireland, and be able to look back on that with satisfaction when I retire.

"I hope to play many, many more games for Newcastle."

https://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~949488,00.html

Thompers, I've been looking for a while and I still haven't found your brain.

If there's one thing supporters of other clubs recognize it's that Given is World Class. In fact, the only people I've ever seen to shite him seems to be a small overly cynical segment of our own support.

Given is quite literally second to none in shot-stopping. That can't be argued. Even ignoring all other aspects of his game, he is quite possibly the best in the world in the most important part of goalkeeping. That alone should mark him as a quality keeper.

On top of that, I have no idea where this drivel about his box command and aerial ability being shite are coming from. Yes, he's not as good at those as he is at shot stopping, but in all my years of watching him play I have never seen any sort of conclusive evidence to tell me that his defense of the box or aerial ability is any less than that of a decent Premiership keeper. It also bears mention that the quality of the defense is probably one of the reasons that Shay looks less dominant in the box than he should. It's a lot easier to control the box with Thuram and Cannavaro than it is with Bramble and Boumsong.

The only reason he keeps getting unduly attacked in these areas is because a. His godly shot-stopping ability makes them seem bad in comparison and b. Cynics will dig hard for ANYTHING to slag off a decent player with. For me, Shay's only weakness is that his distribution is admittedly utter shite. But I can live with this, to discard him for this weakness would be like writing off Henry because he can't score headers.

I'm a realist. I know we're mid table, I know a lot of our players are shite, I know that Ameobi should probably be shipped off to the Championship ASAP.

But, being a realist, the one fact that I can acknowledge without a doubt is that Shay Given is World Class.

In their defence, some people thought Souness should get more time, that Faye was an acceptable player, and that Ameobi is good enough for a first team start.

Care in the community has a lot to answer for.

He's a trophy keeper that makes the sheepfans that are a majority bleat about him being world class.

He's a midget,  has F*** all aerial ability, and he has no command of the defence, which is surely one of the contributing factors as to why its shit.

So enlighten me. In what way is Given "quality" but not World Class? What keepers in your views are actually "World Class?"

I understood your point that you think a world class keeper should be good in all areas, but how do you address my points that nobody can conclusively say that Given is actually bad at all the things you accuse him of being bad at.

While we're at it, if you actually think that Given is quality, why say that



Either your making some contradictions here or your previous post was just blatant windup/attention seeking  tongue.gif

Oh, and btw it's just out of the goodness of my heart that I'm not even addressing your highly "interesting" comment that Krul is better than Given.

So enlighten me. In what way is Given "quality" but not World Class? What keepers in your views are actually "World Class?"

Buffon and Van Der Sar to name a couple and people like Schmeichel and Seaman in their day. Given is "quality" because he has outstanding parts to his game but not "World class" because parts of his game are flawed such as his defensive organisation at times and his ability when it comes to crosses (an important part of a goakeepers game). If you want though I will say omg Given dead world class lyk as long az the otha team onli playz thru da middle and duznt do any crossez!

I understood your point that you think a world class keeper should be good in all areas, but how do you address my points that nobody can conclusively say that Given is actually bad at all the things you accuse him of being bad at.

He is bad at organising the defence. Terrible in fact. I also can't remember a time that he last claimed a corner. It's either a punch away or he's nowhere near. Never claims them. So yes, I think that I can conclusively say that Given is bad at all the things I accuse him of being bad at.

While we're at it, if you actually think that Given is quality, why say that


Because shot stopping is the most 'spectacular' part of a goalkeepers job, and is also Given's best attribute. When our fickle fans see a player doing the most spectacular part well it fools them into thinking that he's a better player than he actually is. That quote is more of a stab at the fans than Given. It's like people who think Parker is amazing because he does sliding tackles alk the time. The same applies.


Yes, more opinions on parts of his game. That, of course, doesn't state that there isn't quality parts to his game which I've already explained that there is.

Either your making some contradictions here or your previous post was just blatant windup/attention seeking  tongue.gif

Where have I contradicted myself?

Oh, and btw it's just out of the goodness of my heart that I'm not even addressing your highly "interesting" comment that Krul is better than Given.

I never said that so you're making things up. I said that Krul's one game has been better than Given has played all season. That is indictating that I think Given's recent form has been poor, which imo, it has. I haven't once suggested that Krul is a better player. But if that's what you have to resort to to try and make a point, then make some more shit up, OldTrype  :lol:

Quote function doesn't work for me. Makes stuff like this bloody annoying.

A. If your definition of World Class is just the two best keepers in the world, then sure, Shay's not world class. But personally, I'd call one of the best keepers in the world's most competetive leagues in the world who also happens to be an excellent preformer on the international stage "world class." But this is pointless semantics.

B. Again, how in Gods name do you know he is terrible at organizing the defense? Do you have a bug on his lapel listening in to his conversations with the back line? Are you pals with Ramage or Taylor who've been telling you that Given ain't giving them the right instructions? Fact in point, you have no objective measure whatsoever of determining what portion of our defending woes lie with Shay and what portion lie with our rather severely incompetent defense line. Given(excuse the pun) the situation and considering their reputations, I'd stake my money on the latter. As would any fan who wasn't hell-bent at digging up anything to shit on our best frigging player with.

C. You completely miss my base point, which is that being a spectacular shot stopper and just above average is enough to be a World Class keeper. The most obvious way a goalie is judged is "how many more goals would we concede without him?" And I believe that that number for Given, even assuming that he saves us ZERO goals with aerial ability or box control, is high enough to make him World Class. Would you say a striker is shite because he does nothing but score goals? Because basically what your saying right now is that Given is shite because all he does is stop them.

D. It's a given(this is getting annoying) that your comparing the current form of both players, and I never claimed that you said "Krul in that one game>Given at any time in his career." I knew exactly what you were saying, and I find it laughable all the same.

You can fondle yourself with your snide remarks all you want, but strip it all away and your just repeating the exact same points, exactly as illogical as they were a few hours ago.

Quote function doesn't work for me. Makes stuff like this bloody annoying.

A. If your definition of World Class is just the two best keepers in the world, then sure, Shay's not world class. But personally, I'd call one of the best keepers in the world's most competetive leagues in the world who also happens to be an excellent preformer on the international stage "world class." But this is pointless semantics.

B. Again, how in Gods name do you know he is terrible at organizing the defense? Do you have a bug on his lapel listening in to his conversations with the back line? Are you pals with Ramage or Taylor who've been telling you that Given ain't giving them the right instructions? Fact in point, you have no objective measure whatsoever of determining what portion of our defending woes lie with Shay and what portion lie with our rather severely incompetent defense line. Given(excuse the pun) the situation and considering their reputations, I'd stake my money on the latter. As would any fan who wasn't hell-bent at digging up anything to shit on our best frigging player with.

C. You completely miss my base point, which is that being a spectacular shot stopper and just above average is enough to be a World Class keeper. The most obvious way a goalie is judged is "how many more goals would we concede without him?" And I believe that that number for Given, even assuming that he saves us ZERO goals with aerial ability or box control, is high enough to make him World Class. Would you say a striker is shite because he does nothing but score goals? Because basically what your saying right now is that Given is shite because all he does is stop them.

D. It's a given(this is getting annoying) that your comparing the current form of both players, and I never claimed that you said "Krul in that one game>Given at any time in his career." I knew exactly what you were saying, and I find it laughable all the same.

You can fondle yourself with your snide remarks all you want, but strip it all away and your just repeating the exact same points, exactly as illogical as they were a few hours ago.

I suppose that translates as "I don't know what to say and I can't be bothered to type another half-page essay on this bloody thread so I'll just shut up."

Suits me.

You completely miss my base point, which is that being a spectacular shot stopper and just above average is enough to be a World Class keeper

Not really, it's actually fairly straightforward. A striker's job is to SCORE goals, a keeprs job is to STOP them. If Given can't stop goals by the stuff you keep mentioning (which, by the way, you still can't prove that he's bad at.) but stops them all anyway with reflex saves, than I really don't care whether his all-around game is weak or not.

Compare this to say... Henry. If Henry is scoring 20 a season with his right foot, then I don't really care even if he can't score with his left foot or with his head (although honestly I can't even recall if Henry is right-footed or not. Shame on me, but it's just an example.)

It doesn't matter HOW Shay's stopping goals as long as he's stopping lots of them. The number he stops just with his reflexes is enough for me, to call him World Class. Apparently, it doesn't work that way for you. Shame.

This Thompers guy is the most mentally ill lad I've ever seen here  :roll:

Same situation can happen with strikers. Strikers aern't always in situations in which they can choose which body part they want to use to score. In this aspect, lack of versatility can be a weakness. That goes for keepers as well. But there are enough situations in which the keeper is free to play to his strenghts.

Command of the box or aerial ability really isn't more than preventing shots before they happen. Again, assuming that Shay can't defend for shite... Which we keep doing for some reason despite the fact that it's not true, it doesn't matter because he can wait until the shots happen and swat them away with his reflexes. Hence, mission accomplished: he's still stopping a LOT more goals than most keepers.

Oh, and just so we're even...
F*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ckF*ck
ShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShitShit
:lol: :thup:

mostly because I have a brain.

Then again, it can't hurt to try.

BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET

:lol:

A. If your definition of World Class is just the two best keepers in the world, then sure, Shay's not world class. But personally, I'd call one of the best keepers in the world's most competetive leagues in the world who also happens to be an excellent preformer on the international stage "world class." But this is pointless semantics.

B. Again, how in Gods name do you know he is terrible at organizing the defense? Do you have a bug on his lapel listening in to his conversations with the back line? Are you pals with Ramage or Taylor who've been telling you that Given ain't giving them the right instructions? Fact in point, you have no objective measure whatsoever of determining what portion of our defending woes lie with Shay and what portion lie with our rather severely incompetent defense line. Given(excuse the pun) the situation and considering their reputations, I'd stake my money on the latter. As would any fan who wasn't hell-bent at digging up anything to shit on our best frigging player with.

C. You completely miss my base point, which is that being a spectacular shot stopper and just above average is enough to be a World Class keeper. The most obvious way a goalie is judged is "how many more goals would we concede without him?" And I believe that that number for Given, even assuming that he saves us ZERO goals with aerial ability or box control, is high enough to make him World Class. Would you say a striker is shite because he does nothing but score goals? Because basically what your saying right now is that Given is shite because all he does is stop them.

This Thompers guy is the most mentally ill lad I've ever seen here :roll:

BLEEEEAT.  You're just a sheep.  There are far more mentally ill lads on here, but since thompers excels at the most showy parts of being mentally ill (bonkers arguments), everyone thinks he's the top of the heap.

What about his over-the-top insults?  Poor.  His inane ramblings are also suspect.  And while his passionate, unreasonable vendettas against individual players are above average, they still don't reach the heights of the board's truly mental posters.  Crumpy Gunt has been more insane in a single thread than thompers has over his entire posting career!  We could certainly sell him to another forum.

How many clubs world wide would not want to buy him if he was offerd to them ??