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Title: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 07:18:30 AM Where is Luque ? Is he still injured ? What is the latest on him ? Will he play before the season ends ? Damn it I need some answers bluebiggrin.gif
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Darth Toon on April 13, 2006, 07:45:21 AM Back in training now apparently - should be in contention for the weekend games, and with 2 in 3 days should at least get on the bench for one of them!
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 07:46:40 AM Quote from: Darth Toon on April 13, 2006, 07:45:21 AM Back in training now apparently - should be in contention for the weekend games, and with 2 in 3 days should at least get on the bench for one of them! Well I hope bloody so...For god sake he should be given at least a game or two before the close of this season... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Darth Toon on April 13, 2006, 07:48:37 AM He could still salvage himself a toon career if he comes off the bench to score the winner against the mackems!
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Jaehyun on April 13, 2006, 07:51:43 AM Yeah i reckon, i really want that guy to have a few games and find form, dun want him to leave, because we know he's absolutely class, and he should be able to adapt to the premierleague with enough gametime, like it took one and a half years for reyes to adapt, i'm sure luque only needs half that.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Anders Rye on April 13, 2006, 09:41:58 AM IS Ameobi banned for the next match? If he is, Luque should bloody hell be be picked for the bench before Chopra. Would like to see Luque get 15 mins next game and maybe 30 mins against Sunderland!
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 09:42:54 AM Latest news: he's still shit.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 09:47:12 AM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 09:42:54 AM Latest news: he's still shit. The red robot is shit :D Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 09:54:26 AM Latest Update:
His NUFC career is over, due to his inability to show any interest or ability in the (admittedly short) time he has been allowed. Oh, and he has a heart the size of a pea, and he makes Ameobi look useful, for which he should never be forgiven. We'll maybe get half what we paid for him, and hopefully his desperate fanboys will **** off with him like most of Kluiverts did. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Jaehyun on April 13, 2006, 09:56:10 AM Northernmonkey you bluddy monkey, we'll see what you say when he scores a hattrick against the mackems~ :cool:
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 10:01:07 AM Quote from: Jaehyun on April 13, 2006, 09:56:10 AM Northernmonkey you bluddy monkey, we'll see what you say when he scores a hattrick against the mackems~ :cool: I'll say "turn FM2006 off now Jaehyun, its time for your tea". and maybe "he's still been shit for us in real life". Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 10:01:45 AM I did say on here ages ago that my Spanish mate, when pressed on his character (and no knowledge of what was happening to him here), said that he was 'immature' and 'spoilt'. Although i think there is a talent in there it did not surprise my mate when i explained the story of his season so far... hmmm. Basically he thinks hes a ****.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: TheOrder on April 13, 2006, 10:13:42 AM I'll join in. Off with his head :thdn:.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: ChickenKiev on April 13, 2006, 10:19:41 AM I'll join in. First team striker next season
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: TheOrder on April 13, 2006, 10:25:42 AM Quote from: ChickenKiev on April 13, 2006, 10:19:41 AM I'll join in. First team striker next season I was being sarcastic, what about you?;) Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:25:56 AM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 09:54:26 AM Latest Update: His NUFC career is over, due to his inability to show any interest or ability in the (admittedly short) time he has been allowed. Oh, and he has a heart the size of a pea, and he makes Ameobi look useful, for which he should never be forgiven. We'll maybe get half what we paid for him, and hopefully his desperate fanboys will **** off with him like most of Kluiverts did. Laughable TBH. bluelaugh.gif Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 10:26:59 AM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:25:56 AM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 09:54:26 AM Latest Update: His NUFC career is over, due to his inability to show any interest or ability in the (admittedly short) time he has been allowed. Oh, and he has a heart the size of a pea, and he makes Ameobi look useful, for which he should never be forgiven. We'll maybe get half what we paid for him, and hopefully his desperate fanboys will **** off with him like most of Kluiverts did. Laughable TBH. bluelaugh.gif FACT tbh. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: TheOrder on April 13, 2006, 10:29:19 AM TBH tbh.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 10:32:22 AM Quote from: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 10:01:45 AM I did say on here ages ago that my Spanish mate, when pressed on his character (and no knowledge of what was happening to him here), said that he was 'immature' and 'spoilt'. Although i think there is a talent in there it did not surprise my mate when i explained the story of his season so far... hmmm. Basically he thinks hes a ****. But Souness said he was a proper player, and Bellamy was disruptive, and has shelled out 6m quid of the clubs money to do this ludicrous swap. Luque is finished, we will only get a fraction of what we paid for him. I don't understand how people think he even played well against manu in his first game, because he didn't, he was crap, he's been crap ever since, and has no heart or desire which is what I said after one game and got slaughtered by those who basically haven't a clue, that STILL want to disturb a team doing much better lately for some reason only they know. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 10:40:24 AM Quote from: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 10:32:22 AM Quote from: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 10:01:45 AM I did say on here ages ago that my Spanish mate, when pressed on his character (and no knowledge of what was happening to him here), said that he was 'immature' and 'spoilt'. Although i think there is a talent in there it did not surprise my mate when i explained the story of his season so far... hmmm. Basically he thinks hes a ****. But Souness said he was a proper player, and Bellamy was disruptive, and has shelled out 6m quid of the clubs money to do this ludicrous swap. Luque is finished, we will only get a fraction of what we paid for him. I don't understand how people think he even played well against manu in his first game, because he didn't, he was crap, he's been crap ever since, and has no heart or desire which is what I said after one game and got slaughtered by those who basically haven't a clue, that STILL want to disturb a team doing much better lately for some reason only they know. There is still the faint hope that the whole deal was orchestrated to get him to Real as they knew the mad chairman at depor would never sell him. He goes to england, fakes injury, we get compensated for wages or some wages and real are guaranteed to get their man. We therefore dont lose any money and are in a strong financial barganing position with real over continued payments for Owen and mebbes Woodgate. I did also think this in the same daydream where i was convinced me lass still loved us, i was getting that promotion and that next season was going to be the one... Aye its b******s. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:41:21 AM Quote from: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 10:32:22 AM Quote from: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 10:01:45 AM I did say on here ages ago that my Spanish mate, when pressed on his character (and no knowledge of what was happening to him here), said that he was 'immature' and 'spoilt'. Although i think there is a talent in there it did not surprise my mate when i explained the story of his season so far... hmmm. Basically he thinks hes a ****. But Souness said he was a proper player, and Bellamy was disruptive, and has shelled out 6m quid of the clubs money to do this ludicrous swap. Luque is finished, we will only get a fraction of what we paid for him. I don't understand how people think he even played well against manu in his first game, because he didn't, he was crap, he's been crap ever since, and has no heart or desire which is what I said after one game and got slaughtered by those who basically haven't a clue, that STILL want to disturb a team doing much better lately for some reason only they know. Where you there? (Not asked in a sarcastic way) I was and i thought he played well, he also scored a goal which was fair enough offside. Which is more than Ameobi could do on a good day (until just recently). What annoys me is all this "he doesn't care", "shows no interest" and "has the heart the size of a pea". To people really think they have an accurate view of a footballers personallity and feelings. Isn't it more likely that Souness has absolutely crushed this guys confidence with poor fitness descions and mindless tactics. I'll be honest, i would be gutted if we failed to see the best of Luque in a black and white shirt. This would just point out to me everything that is wrong with our football club. If Luque had joined Arsenal or Liverpool, i highly doubt he would have failed in the premiership. TBH, i think Souness got it wrong from day one. However, i also fear his prem career is over. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 10:41:27 AM Quote from: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 10:40:24 AM Quote from: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 10:32:22 AM Quote from: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 10:01:45 AM I did say on here ages ago that my Spanish mate, when pressed on his character (and no knowledge of what was happening to him here), said that he was 'immature' and 'spoilt'. Although i think there is a talent in there it did not surprise my mate when i explained the story of his season so far... hmmm. Basically he thinks hes a ****. But Souness said he was a proper player, and Bellamy was disruptive, and has shelled out 6m quid of the clubs money to do this ludicrous swap. Luque is finished, we will only get a fraction of what we paid for him. I don't understand how people think he even played well against manu in his first game, because he didn't, he was crap, he's been crap ever since, and has no heart or desire which is what I said after one game and got slaughtered by those who basically haven't a clue, that STILL want to disturb a team doing much better lately for some reason only they know. There is still the faint hope that the whole deal was orchestrated to get him to Real as they knew the mad chairman at depor would never sell him. He goes to england, fakes injury, we get compensated for wages or some wages and real are guaranteed to get their man. We therefore dont lose any money and are in a strong financial barganing position with real over continued payments for Owen and mebbes Woodgate. I did also think this in the same daydream where i was convinced me lass still loved us, i was getting that promotion and that next season was going to be the one... Aye its b******s. wishful thinking indeed bluebiggrin.gif Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alex on April 13, 2006, 10:44:58 AM Strangely when I think back to the home game against Man Utd. I can't remember Luque doing anything apart from missing a one on one with the 'keeper late on.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 10:45:43 AM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 10:44:58 AM Strangely when I think back to the home game against Man Utd. I can't remember Luque doing anything apart from missing a one on one with the 'keeper late on. that is all I remember as well Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:49:45 AM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 10:44:58 AM Strangely when I think back to the home game against Man Utd. I can't remember Luque doing anything apart from missing a one on one with the 'keeper late on. I take by that you mean when he skinned Rio Ferdinand by flicking the ball over his head. Then just volleying wide from a tight angle. Could you remind me what Shearer did in that game?................. Exactly. He must be shit and heartless too. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 11:05:28 AM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:49:45 AM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 10:44:58 AM Strangely when I think back to the home game against Man Utd. I can't remember Luque doing anything apart from missing a one on one with the 'keeper late on. I take by that you mean when he skinned Rio Ferdinand by flicking the ball over his head. Then just volleying wide from a tight angle. Could you remind me what Shearer did in that game?................. Exactly. He must be shit and heartless too. I'm not sure comparison to a 35 year old, clearly finished Alan Shearer is valid though. We all know Shearer does next to nowt these days. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Ally on April 13, 2006, 11:08:33 AM Luque has looked dogshit to be fair.
Personally if he wants to stay i'd give him a chance next season with a full pre-season under his belt. If he doesn't want to be here though he can **** right off. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 11:11:23 AM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:49:45 AM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 10:44:58 AM Strangely when I think back to the home game against Man Utd. I can't remember Luque doing anything apart from missing a one on one with the 'keeper late on. I take by that you mean when he skinned Rio Ferdinand by flicking the ball over his head. Then just volleying wide from a tight angle. Could you remind me what Shearer did in that game?................. Exactly. He must be shit and heartless too. games last 90 minutes not 5 seconds, and however fleeting a moment such as this may be it's not enough to hide for the remaining 89 minutes 55 seconds. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Slugsy on April 13, 2006, 11:15:20 AM Oh my god another thread that's turned into an assessment of Luque... bluebigeek.gif
Not only does he waste the money of NUFC, but also the time and energy of N-O forum members as discussing the useless sh*te is just that - useless! :thdn: Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 11:16:37 AM Quote from: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 11:11:23 AM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:49:45 AM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 10:44:58 AM Strangely when I think back to the home game against Man Utd. I can't remember Luque doing anything apart from missing a one on one with the 'keeper late on. I take by that you mean when he skinned Rio Ferdinand by flicking the ball over his head. Then just volleying wide from a tight angle. Could you remind me what Shearer did in that game?................. Exactly. He must be shit and heartless too. games last 90 minutes not 5 seconds, and however fleeting a moment such as this may be it's not enough to hide for the remaining 89 minutes 55 seconds. In which i presume you think he played poorly, i thought he played well. However, i'm sure because my opinion is different to yours that means i'm wrong. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: leon b on April 13, 2006, 11:52:11 AM Luque's biggest problem isn't his ability, (those who really know about football would know that) his biggest problem is his attitude.In the past he has had the reputation of being a bit troublesome and lazy,he has a massive amount of quality and on his day he's easily the best attacking player in our squad but the question is, will we ever see that day?......... I really don't think we will.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 12:09:34 PM People still talking about this gutless waste of space.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: toontownman on April 13, 2006, 12:13:03 PM its a strange one, clearly hasnt adapted... but clearly hasnt been given enough of a kick up the ass. certainly hasnt been given enough playing time.. but its a catch 22 why risk the result of games when there are more effective players to use.
For me he has look good on several occasions.. but mainly when he was playing a bit deeper.. the second half at man city away he and emre played well deep spraying balls around.. He should surely get time before the end of the season.. but again when we need to be finishing as high up as we can to catch the european places why take the risk.. .. just have to trust roeder on it i guess, its not like he has an adversion to foreigners and knows how to handle them after di canio at west ham. its taken alot of good players, Bergkamp, Henry, reyes all struggled in their first year here.. but sometimes things arent meant to be and players just wont ever adapt over here. I would like to see him given a few games.. ameobi gets given chance after chance.. although finally we are seeing a bit of the benefits of giving him a few games in a row. If it means risking points though its wise that luque isnt involved.. and let the new manager decide if he wants to keep him. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 12:43:16 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:25:56 AM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 09:54:26 AM Latest Update: His NUFC career is over, due to his inability to show any interest or ability in the (admittedly short) time he has been allowed. Oh, and he has a heart the size of a pea, and he makes Ameobi look useful, for which he should never be forgiven. We'll maybe get half what we paid for him, and hopefully his desperate fanboys will **** off with him like most of Kluiverts did. Laughable TBH. bluelaugh.gif Whats laughable is people who defend him on the basis of a TOTAL OF 3 GOOD CROSSES in all of the time he has had on the pitch. HE was poor against Man Utd, and yes, i was there, and he has been poor every time he has played. And yes, i go to every game i can, although i HAVE had to watch 5 aways on telly this season. There is NO reason to think Luque is anything other than a huffy waste of space. Fact. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 12:47:10 PM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 12:43:16 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:25:56 AM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 09:54:26 AM Latest Update: His NUFC career is over, due to his inability to show any interest or ability in the (admittedly short) time he has been allowed. Oh, and he has a heart the size of a pea, and he makes Ameobi look useful, for which he should never be forgiven. We'll maybe get half what we paid for him, and hopefully his desperate fanboys will **** off with him like most of Kluiverts did. Laughable TBH. bluelaugh.gif Whats laughable is people who defend him on the basis of a TOTAL OF 3 GOOD CROSSES in all of the time he has had on the pitch. HE was poor against Man Utd, and yes, i was there, and he has been poor every time he has played. And yes, i go to every game i can, although i HAVE had to watch 5 aways on telly this season. There is NO reason to think Luque is anything other than a huffy waste of space. Fact. Correct. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 12:48:48 PM I have to admit that on this one I'm at a total loss as to why certain people are defending this bloke so much. Had he done anything at all, or shown any spirit and desire to play for the club I could understand it. But he's shown absolutely nothing at all.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 12:51:15 PM It pains me to see Fabio Rochemback running the Middlesbrough team at the moment.
After his first few games, the vast majority of Boro fans wanted him out the door, but the management kept patience, even though he had already put in a lot more laughable gutless performances than Luque has, and this was despite not suffering the most severe of hamstring injuries. Now he's an integral part of the team, one of the first names on the sheet. Boro must have been stupid to give him time, we all know what they should have done is stick him out in the cold and call him worse than shite. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: toontownman on April 13, 2006, 12:55:53 PM think it comes down to alot of people seeing what he has done and can do and expecting the same here..
The premiership just doesnt work out for some people.. its mystifying the lack of talent he has shown though. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some).
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 01:04:08 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 12:51:15 PM It pains me to see Fabio Rochemback running the Middlesbrough team at the moment. After his first few games, the vast majority of Boro fans wanted him out the door, but the management kept patience, even though he had already put in a lot more laughable gutless performances than Luque has, and this was despite not suffering the most severe of hamstring injuries. Now he's an integral part of the team, one of the first names on the sheet. Boro must have been stupid to give him time, we all know what they should have done is stick him out in the cold and call him worse than shite. So which player would you leave out for this gutless bloke? Bear in mind that the team is looking better now and winning some matches, so there should be a good reason to disrupt it. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: stupeedo on April 13, 2006, 01:11:31 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 12:51:15 PM It pains me to see Fabio Rochemback running the Middlesbrough team at the moment. After his first few games, the vast majority of Boro fans wanted him out the door, but the management kept patience, even though he had already put in a lot more laughable gutless performances than Luque has, and this was despite not suffering the most severe of hamstring injuries. Now he's an integral part of the team, one of the first names on the sheet. Boro must have been stupid to give him time, we all know what they should have done is stick him out in the cold and call him worse than shite. Couldn't agree more. I watched the Man Utd game in a pub in Reading (was at the festival) and Luque looked our best player that day, was only disappointed that he didn't get a goal for his efforts. On the other hand, he's done absolutely nowt since then - bar a couple of assists - so he wouldn't get in the team for that. Then again, Ameobi's hardly been doing the goods. The thing about Luque is that he has the ability to hit the ball, I don't see any of our team doing that - Emre and Solano try to place/curl it, Shearer cannot get himself the room and space for a shot (RIP) and Zoggy needs to be running before he winds up for a shot. Give him a chance at least, sub Shearer after 60mins against Wigan and let him have a run out. By leaving him on the bench we'll just end up writing off his transfer fee. When we sell him to Liverpool for just £4million and he's the best player in the Prem next year :| Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 01:18:43 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. But we don't always end up with players who "can't adapt". We've had plenty who managed perfectly fine. I won't list them, Wullie, we know who they are. The one's who don't adapt have their own lack of character to blame. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)?
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 01:30:40 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 01:18:43 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. But we don't always end up with players who "can't adapt". We've had plenty who managed perfectly fine. I won't list them, Wullie, we know who they are. The one's who don't adapt have their own lack of character to blame. The foreign players that have done well for us are those that hit off from the word go or at least in the first few games. As a club, I cant remember us being supportive of a foreign player who played below his standards innitially and turn it around later on. Its a bit of both, the player's desire to improve and the club and fans being supportive, to pretend otherwise is not based on reality. As for who I'd take out of the team, it has to be Shearer, he's got his scoring record, everyone is chaffed for him and he does not contribute much anymore. Either play Luque from the start or take Shearer off in 60th minute and give Luque 30 soild mins, no more of the comedy of the last 5-10 minutes when the game is lost or, when we are defending like mad or when the team is more interested in winding down the clock. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:32:39 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Is 71 minutes spread across 4 substitute appearances enough to judge his performances under Roeder? I can't get my head round this "he must be terrible in training" argument, it assumes that the manager is always correct. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 01:51:03 PM This is what Reyes has said today to Fernando Torres to presuade him to come to the premier league with Arsenal:
Quote: "Torres is already one of the best strikers in the world and when Arsene Wenger asked me about him I said he would be a great player for Arsenal," said Reyes. "He is very important for Atletico and Spain and would have no problems adapting to England. "I would be delighted if he joins Arsenal." Now how do those so called NUFC fans with brains the size of peanut expect NUFC to still be able to attract world class players if they see their fellow countrymen being booed and mockered and not being supported and encouraged during difficult times... That's why NUFC will never get the Torres and Kyuts because of such ugly and disgraceful fans... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 01:53:25 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 01:30:40 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 01:18:43 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. But we don't always end up with players who "can't adapt". We've had plenty who managed perfectly fine. I won't list them, Wullie, we know who they are. The one's who don't adapt have their own lack of character to blame. The foreign players that have done well for us are those that hit off from the word go or at least in the first few games. As a club, I cant remember us being supportive of a foreign player who played below his standards innitially and turn it around later on. Its a bit of both, the player's desire to improve and the club and fans being supportive, to pretend otherwise is not based on reality. As for who I'd take out of the team, it has to be Shearer, he's got his scoring record, everyone is chaffed for him and he does not contribute much anymore. Either play Luque from the start or take Shearer off in 60th minute and give Luque 30 soild mins, no more of the comedy of the last 5-10 minutes when the game is lost or, when we are defending like mad or when the team is more interested in winding down the clock. No point in putting forward a counter argument against such an arrogant, "I'm right, you're wrong" type of post, is there? ;) Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 01:54:08 PM Quote from: leon b on April 13, 2006, 11:52:11 AM Luque's biggest problem isn't his ability, (those who really know about football would know that) his biggest problem is his attitude.In the past he has had the reputation of being a bit troublesome and lazy,he has a massive amount of quality and on his day he's easily the best attacking player in our squad but the question is, will we ever see that day?......... I really don't think we will. Believe me we will and mark my word WE WILL, ONLY IF WE GIVE HIM THE CHANCE... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: ChickenKiev on April 13, 2006, 01:56:38 PM Quote from: TheOrder on April 13, 2006, 10:25:42 AM Quote from: ChickenKiev on April 13, 2006, 10:19:41 AM I'll join in. First team striker next season I was being sarcastic, what about you?;) I wasn't :winking: Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 01:58:07 PM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 12:43:16 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:25:56 AM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 09:54:26 AM Latest Update: His NUFC career is over, due to his inability to show any interest or ability in the (admittedly short) time he has been allowed. Oh, and he has a heart the size of a pea, and he makes Ameobi look useful, for which he should never be forgiven. We'll maybe get half what we paid for him, and hopefully his desperate fanboys will **** off with him like most of Kluiverts did. Laughable TBH. bluelaugh.gif Whats laughable is people who defend him on the basis of a TOTAL OF 3 GOOD CROSSES in all of the time he has had on the pitch. HE was poor against Man Utd, and yes, i was there, and he has been poor every time he has played. And yes, i go to every game i can, although i HAVE had to watch 5 aways on telly this season. There is NO reason to think Luque is anything other than a huffy waste of space. Fact. And can you tell us how much time has he had ? And during what stage of the game he was usually sent on ? And how much time has Ameobi had in the first team before he started playing OK just OK ? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:01:41 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 12:48:48 PM I have to admit that on this one I'm at a total loss as to why certain people are defending this bloke so much. Had he done anything at all, or shown any spirit and desire to play for the club I could understand it. But he's shown absolutely nothing at all. No he hasn't done much and hasn't shown a lot of spirit and desire...BUT WHY ? Simply because you CAN NOT DO ALL THAT IF YOU ARE NOT ON THE FIELD and frankly Luque hasn't seen enough of first team football to show you all that stuff you are talking about... Now I assume Ameobi has shown you all the effort and desire in the world in ONLY 200 minutes worth of first team football, right ??? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 02:01:41 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 01:53:25 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 01:30:40 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 01:18:43 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. But we don't always end up with players who "can't adapt". We've had plenty who managed perfectly fine. I won't list them, Wullie, we know who they are. The one's who don't adapt have their own lack of character to blame. The foreign players that have done well for us are those that hit off from the word go or at least in the first few games. As a club, I cant remember us being supportive of a foreign player who played below his standards innitially and turn it around later on. Its a bit of both, the player's desire to improve and the club and fans being supportive, to pretend otherwise is not based on reality. As for who I'd take out of the team, it has to be Shearer, he's got his scoring record, everyone is chaffed for him and he does not contribute much anymore. Either play Luque from the start or take Shearer off in 60th minute and give Luque 30 soild mins, no more of the comedy of the last 5-10 minutes when the game is lost or, when we are defending like mad or when the team is more interested in winding down the clock. No point in putting forward a counter argument against such an arrogant, "I'm right, you're wrong" type of post, is there? ;) Yup for once we finally agree tongue3.gif Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:09:11 PM Quote from: toontownman on April 13, 2006, 12:55:53 PM think it comes down to alot of people seeing what he has done and can do and expecting the same here.. The premiership just doesnt work out for some people.. its mystifying the lack of talent he has shown though. Bullocks TBH...A good player is a good player no matter where he plays...Any World Class player will be great no matter where he plays as long as he is given the chance and supported by the club and being made welcomed by the fans... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:10:44 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:32:39 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Is 71 minutes spread across 4 substitute appearances enough to judge his performances under Roeder? I can't get my head round this "he must be terrible in training" argument, it assumes that the manager is always correct. I'm assuming he knows more than the likes of us and has a lot more idea of his attitude and so on. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Exactly mate...SPOT ON...If Viana and Luque were at Man U or Aresenal they would have already been adapted and scoring hatricks by now... The problem is with NUFC and some of its so called FANS... NO SUPPORT, not standing together, not giving chances to our expensive and world class foreign players to adapt and show their class when they are low in moral and down... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 02:17:28 PM I think people have been waiting for him to fail since day one. Not waiting for him to suceed.
Luque hasn't done anything to suggest that he's going to be the fantastic player we all thought he would be. Does that mean we should critisise his attitude and ability..... no. The same people who take cheap shots a Luque's attitude without any evidence of a poor attitude are the same ones who slated Souness every day. I'm not saying for a second these people shouldn't have slated him because in hine sight he was a disaster on all accounts but surely this means it's Souness' fault that Luque didn't suceed. He made some critical errors when it came to Luque: 1) Playing him with one day's training 2) Bringing him back from a horrific injury to early 3) Not making him play in the reserves, or at least suggesting it 4) Putting him on in games we were losing instead of ones where we were winning Surely the reason Luque hasn't succeeded at this football club is because of the manager that brought him here rather than his attitude. That's why i will not write him off in this league until we get a new manager (preferably one with brain cells). Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 02:19:22 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 01:30:40 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 01:18:43 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. But we don't always end up with players who "can't adapt". We've had plenty who managed perfectly fine. I won't list them, Wullie, we know who they are. The one's who don't adapt have their own lack of character to blame. The foreign players that have done well for us are those that hit off from the word go or at least in the first few games. As a club, I cant remember us being supportive of a foreign player who played below his standards innitially and turn it around later on. Its a bit of both, the player's desire to improve and the club and fans being supportive, to pretend otherwise is not based on reality. As for who I'd take out of the team, it has to be Shearer, he's got his scoring record, everyone is chaffed for him and he does not contribute much anymore. Either play Luque from the start or take Shearer off in 60th minute and give Luque 30 soild mins, no more of the comedy of the last 5-10 minutes when the game is lost or, when we are defending like mad or when the team is more interested in winding down the clock. I agree completely. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:29:55 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Exactly mate...SPOT ON...If Viana and Luque were at Man U or Aresenal they would have already been adapted and scoring hatricks by now... The problem is with NUFC and some of its so called FANS... NO SUPPORT, not standing together, not giving chances to our expensive and world class foreign players to adapt and show their class when they are low in moral and down... Or they could have flopped like Djemba Djemba, Forlan, Wiltord and Cygan etc. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Taylor on April 13, 2006, 02:30:35 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Do you think it might have something to do with his confidence at rock bottom and the idiots in the stands ripping into him coming onto the pitch? Like I have said before on here is fair enough to rip into him but at the end of the day if it wasnt for the idiots at st james' we wouldnt have as many problems with our players. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 02:34:09 PM Quote from: Taylor on April 13, 2006, 02:30:35 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Do you think it might have something to do with his confidence at rock bottom and the idiots in the stands ripping into him coming onto the pitch? Like I have said before on here is fair enough to rip into him but at the end of the day if it wasnt for the idiots at st james' we wouldnt have as many problems with our players. Here here. thumbup.gif Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: johnnypd on April 13, 2006, 02:35:21 PM perhaps roeder doesn't want to damage the club's investment. if Luque picks up an injury and is out for a few months and the summer transfer window, we've got no chance of selling him and recouping some of our money. since he isn't match fit there's more chance he'll injure himself in a competitive match. look at what happened in the reserve match, and see how anxious the staff were to get him off.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 02:51:36 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:01:41 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 12:48:48 PM I have to admit that on this one I'm at a total loss as to why certain people are defending this bloke so much. Had he done anything at all, or shown any spirit and desire to play for the club I could understand it. But he's shown absolutely nothing at all. No he hasn't done much and hasn't shown a lot of spirit and desire...BUT WHY ? Simply because you CAN NOT DO ALL THAT IF YOU ARE NOT ON THE FIELD and frankly Luque hasn't seen enough of first team football to show you all that stuff you are talking about... Now I assume Ameobi has shown you all the effort and desire in the world in ONLY 200 minutes worth of first team football, right ??? He's had enough time on the field to show whether he wants to be on the field or not. I'm not judging him on stats as other people do, which in fact wouldn't be fair. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 03:11:28 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:29:55 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Exactly mate...SPOT ON...If Viana and Luque were at Man U or Aresenal they would have already been adapted and scoring hatricks by now... The problem is with NUFC and some of its so called FANS... NO SUPPORT, not standing together, not giving chances to our expensive and world class foreign players to adapt and show their class when they are low in moral and down... Or they could have flopped like Djemba Djemba, Forlan, Wiltord and Cygan etc. Aha now I know where your problem lies...To concider Wiltord and Forlan to be flopps is the most amazing statement...Forlan use to come in as a sub and score amazing winners and don't get me started on Wiltord...The guy used to score for fun...They were never flopps, they just didn't get along with their respective managers... With your logic then we should concider Jaan Stam and Kean flopps because Sir Alex got rid of them... Dejmba Dejmba and Cygan were no world class players from the start in the leagues they used to play for before coming to England so your point is not valid here... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 03:12:24 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:10:44 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:32:39 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Is 71 minutes spread across 4 substitute appearances enough to judge his performances under Roeder? I can't get my head round this "he must be terrible in training" argument, it assumes that the manager is always correct. I'm assuming he knows more than the likes of us and has a lot more idea of his attitude and so on. So what about when Souness was choosing Ameobi ahead of N'Zogbia week in, week out down the left? Did you think it was because of an attitude problem? I just took it as the manager being clueless. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alex on April 13, 2006, 03:12:38 PM Quote from: Taylor on April 13, 2006, 02:30:35 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Do you think it might have something to do with his confidence at rock bottom and the idiots in the stands ripping into him coming onto the pitch? Like I have said before on here is fair enough to rip into him but at the end of the day if it wasnt for the idiots at st james' we wouldnt have as many problems with our players. It's generally accepted thoughout football we have some of the best fans in the business. Don't insult my intelligence by suggesting we are to blame for his, frankly disgusting, attitude or his woeful displays. Luque has had a far better reception from the fans than he deserved thus far. Also foreign players like Solano, Emre and Robert are/were worshipped by the fans. In my opinion, Luque isn't interested in playing for us. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alex on April 13, 2006, 03:13:48 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 03:12:24 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:10:44 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:32:39 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Is 71 minutes spread across 4 substitute appearances enough to judge his performances under Roeder? I can't get my head round this "he must be terrible in training" argument, it assumes that the manager is always correct. I'm assuming he knows more than the likes of us and has a lot more idea of his attitude and so on. So what about when Souness was choosing Ameobi ahead of N'Zogbia week in, week out down the left? Did you think it was because of an attitude problem? I just took it as the manager being clueless. I'm talking about Roeder. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 03:14:57 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:29:55 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Exactly mate...SPOT ON...If Viana and Luque were at Man U or Aresenal they would have already been adapted and scoring hatricks by now... The problem is with NUFC and some of its so called FANS... NO SUPPORT, not standing together, not giving chances to our expensive and world class foreign players to adapt and show their class when they are low in moral and down... Or they could have flopped like Djemba Djemba, Forlan, Wiltord and Cygan etc. Of those 4, I'd say only Forlan would fall into the Luque category i.e played horribly for Man Utd but is super for Villareal and yes it could be argued that had the Mancs supported him a bit more, they would have ripped the benefit now (not that they really need it though with horseface, Rooney and Saha). Wiltord was a success for Arsenal albeit a qualified one, Djemba and Cygan are just shite both before and after their transfers and no amount of support would have changed that. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 03:16:36 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 13, 2006, 10:41:21 AM Quote from: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 10:32:22 AM Quote from: ChezGiven on April 13, 2006, 10:01:45 AM I did say on here ages ago that my Spanish mate, when pressed on his character (and no knowledge of what was happening to him here), said that he was 'immature' and 'spoilt'. Although i think there is a talent in there it did not surprise my mate when i explained the story of his season so far... hmmm. Basically he thinks hes a ****. But Souness said he was a proper player, and Bellamy was disruptive, and has shelled out 6m quid of the clubs money to do this ludicrous swap. Luque is finished, we will only get a fraction of what we paid for him. I don't understand how people think he even played well against manu in his first game, because he didn't, he was crap, he's been crap ever since, and has no heart or desire which is what I said after one game and got slaughtered by those who basically haven't a clue, that STILL want to disturb a team doing much better lately for some reason only they know. Where you there? (Not asked in a sarcastic way) I was and i thought he played well, he also scored a goal which was fair enough offside. Which is more than Ameobi could do on a good day (until just recently). What annoys me is all this "he doesn't care", "shows no interest" and "has the heart the size of a pea". To people really think they have an accurate view of a footballers personallity and feelings. Isn't it more likely that Souness has absolutely crushed this guys confidence with poor fitness descions and mindless tactics. I'll be honest, i would be gutted if we failed to see the best of Luque in a black and white shirt. This would just point out to me everything that is wrong with our football club. If Luque had joined Arsenal or Liverpool, i highly doubt he would have failed in the premiership. TBH, i think Souness got it wrong from day one. However, i also fear his prem career is over. of course I was there. He was crap, he's been crap every time I've seen him, and I wouldn't cast such a judgement if I hadn't been there. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 03:16:49 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 03:13:48 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 03:12:24 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:10:44 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:32:39 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Is 71 minutes spread across 4 substitute appearances enough to judge his performances under Roeder? I can't get my head round this "he must be terrible in training" argument, it assumes that the manager is always correct. I'm assuming he knows more than the likes of us and has a lot more idea of his attitude and so on. So what about when Souness was choosing Ameobi ahead of N'Zogbia week in, week out down the left? Did you think it was because of an attitude problem? I just took it as the manager being clueless. I'm talking about Roeder. Erm... ok. So you think Roeder's judgement is impeccable? What about him dropping N'Zogbia for Ameobi at Charlton? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 03:18:10 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 02:51:36 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:01:41 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 12:48:48 PM I have to admit that on this one I'm at a total loss as to why certain people are defending this bloke so much. Had he done anything at all, or shown any spirit and desire to play for the club I could understand it. But he's shown absolutely nothing at all. No he hasn't done much and hasn't shown a lot of spirit and desire...BUT WHY ? Simply because you CAN NOT DO ALL THAT IF YOU ARE NOT ON THE FIELD and frankly Luque hasn't seen enough of first team football to show you all that stuff you are talking about... Now I assume Ameobi has shown you all the effort and desire in the world in ONLY 200 minutes worth of first team football, right ??? He's had enough time on the field to show whether he wants to be on the field or not. I'm not judging him on stats as other people do, which in fact wouldn't be fair. Mate I respectfully disagree here with your point about "Luque has had enough time on the field to show whether he wants to be on the field or not"... I just don't think he has had enough time especially when you take into account the nature of games he played and time he was given per the few games he played in...He came in as sub in all his last games for 5 to 10 minutes when the whole team was either playing shit and the whole team threw the towel, defending the narrow lead we had or just wasting time as the game had already been decided some 40 minutes ago... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alex on April 13, 2006, 03:21:20 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 03:16:49 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 03:13:48 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 03:12:24 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:10:44 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:32:39 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Is 71 minutes spread across 4 substitute appearances enough to judge his performances under Roeder? I can't get my head round this "he must be terrible in training" argument, it assumes that the manager is always correct. I'm assuming he knows more than the likes of us and has a lot more idea of his attitude and so on. So what about when Souness was choosing Ameobi ahead of N'Zogbia week in, week out down the left? Did you think it was because of an attitude problem? I just took it as the manager being clueless. I'm talking about Roeder. Erm... ok. So you think Roeder's judgement is impeccable? What about him dropping N'Zogbia for Ameobi at Charlton? :roll: Every manager makes the occasional mistake Wullie, I'm sure even you would if you got the job. My point was that Luque not getting a look in under Roeder is (in my view) a damning indictment. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alex on April 13, 2006, 03:25:44 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 03:11:28 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:29:55 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Exactly mate...SPOT ON...If Viana and Luque were at Man U or Aresenal they would have already been adapted and scoring hatricks by now... The problem is with NUFC and some of its so called FANS... NO SUPPORT, not standing together, not giving chances to our expensive and world class foreign players to adapt and show their class when they are low in moral and down... Or they could have flopped like Djemba Djemba, Forlan, Wiltord and Cygan etc. Aha now I know where your problem lies...To concider Wiltord and Forlan to be flopps is the most amazing statement...Forlan use to come in as a sub and score amazing winners and don't get me started on Wiltord...The guy used to score for fun...They were never flopps, they just didn't get along with their respective managers... With your logic then we should concider Jaan Stam and Kean flopps because Sir Alex got rid of them... Dejmba Dejmba and Cygan were no world class players from the start in the leagues they used to play for before coming to England so your point is not valid here... World class is an overused phrase, it should only apply to the very top players in the world in my view. Viana couldn't be considered world class, all he'd had was one good season in Portugal. Haven't seen enough of Luque pre-Nufc, but if he was/is 'world class' surely he would have got into Spain's preliminary world cup 33. Also, I do consider Wiltord and Forlan to be flops over here, especially given their price tags. Keane and Stam are completely different, obviously. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 03:27:32 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 01:54:08 PM Quote from: leon b on April 13, 2006, 11:52:11 AM Luque's biggest problem isn't his ability, (those who really know about football would know that) his biggest problem is his attitude.In the past he has had the reputation of being a bit troublesome and lazy,he has a massive amount of quality and on his day he's easily the best attacking player in our squad but the question is, will we ever see that day?......... I really don't think we will. Believe me we will and mark my word WE WILL, ONLY IF WE GIVE HIM THE CHANCE... He won't, and by the way I don't consider myself to be one of "such ugly and disgraceful fans..." ref your earlier statement, just a better judge than you Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 03:29:04 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Exactly mate...SPOT ON...If Viana and Luque were at Man U or Aresenal they would have already been adapted and scoring hatricks by now... The problem is with NUFC and some of its so called FANS... NO SUPPORT, not standing together, not giving chances to our expensive and world class foreign players to adapt and show their class when they are low in moral and down... utter rubbish from start to finish Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 13, 2006, 03:29:58 PM Quote from: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 03:27:32 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 01:54:08 PM Quote from: leon b on April 13, 2006, 11:52:11 AM Luque's biggest problem isn't his ability, (those who really know about football would know that) his biggest problem is his attitude.In the past he has had the reputation of being a bit troublesome and lazy,he has a massive amount of quality and on his day he's easily the best attacking player in our squad but the question is, will we ever see that day?......... I really don't think we will. Believe me we will and mark my word WE WILL, ONLY IF WE GIVE HIM THE CHANCE... He won't, and by the way I don't consider myself to be one of "such ugly and disgraceful fans..." ref your earlier statement, just a better judge than you I don't agree with you...Neither on what you think of Luque nor on you being a better judge than me... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 03:53:09 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 03:18:10 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 02:51:36 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:01:41 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 12:48:48 PM I have to admit that on this one I'm at a total loss as to why certain people are defending this bloke so much. Had he done anything at all, or shown any spirit and desire to play for the club I could understand it. But he's shown absolutely nothing at all. No he hasn't done much and hasn't shown a lot of spirit and desire...BUT WHY ? Simply because you CAN NOT DO ALL THAT IF YOU ARE NOT ON THE FIELD and frankly Luque hasn't seen enough of first team football to show you all that stuff you are talking about... Now I assume Ameobi has shown you all the effort and desire in the world in ONLY 200 minutes worth of first team football, right ??? He's had enough time on the field to show whether he wants to be on the field or not. I'm not judging him on stats as other people do, which in fact wouldn't be fair. Mate I respectfully disagree here with your point about "Luque has had enough time on the field to show whether he wants to be on the field or not"... I just don't think he has had enough time especially when you take into account the nature of games he played and time he was given per the few games he played in...He came in as sub in all his last games for 5 to 10 minutes when the whole team was either playing shit and the whole team threw the towel, defending the narrow lead we had or just wasting time as the game had already been decided some 40 minutes ago... Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree. No problem. At least you reply to points, unlike some others. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:12:34 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 03:13:48 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 03:12:24 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 02:10:44 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:32:39 PM Quote from: alex on April 13, 2006, 01:24:00 PM I think the most damning indictment of Luque is the fact that he's looked just as bad and uninterested under Roeder as he did before. I can only assume he's the same in training otherwise why would Roeder have been so reluctant to play him or even have him in the squad (prior to his latest injury)? Is 71 minutes spread across 4 substitute appearances enough to judge his performances under Roeder? I can't get my head round this "he must be terrible in training" argument, it assumes that the manager is always correct. I'm assuming he knows more than the likes of us and has a lot more idea of his attitude and so on. So what about when Souness was choosing Ameobi ahead of N'Zogbia week in, week out down the left? Did you think it was because of an attitude problem? I just took it as the manager being clueless. I'm talking about Roeder. Yeah the same man who keeps taking off our best player (Solano) at crucial times in games just to give Dyer a run out. We nearly threw away 2 points against Boro because of it. Anyone with half a brain could see that the obvious choice was to take off Shearer (who was once again useless) for Dyer and keep our best player on the pitch to keep possesion in midfield. Roeder has done far better then Souness no doubt, but he isn't perfect. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 04:18:01 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:12:34 PM Yeah the same man who keeps taking off our best player (Solano) at crucial times in games just to give Dyer a run out. We nearly threw away 2 points against Boro because of it. Anyone with half a brain could see that the obvious choice was to take off Shearer (who was once again useless) for Dyer and keep our best player on the pitch to keep possesion in midfield. Roeder has done far better then Souness no doubt, but he isn't perfect. No, he isn't perfect, mate. Roeder sees Luque day in, day out. Do you not believe that if he was watching a person who was showing the right attitude to succeed, a person who is showing a hunger and desire to play for the club and who is as good as some on here think he is, that Roeder would be selecting him? Why do you think he isn't getting much of a look in even when he's fit? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:18:25 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Exactly mate...SPOT ON...If Viana and Luque were at Man U or Aresenal they would have already been adapted and scoring hatricks by now... The problem is with NUFC and some of its so called FANS... NO SUPPORT, not standing together, not giving chances to our expensive and world class foreign players to adapt and show their class when they are low in moral and down... 100% correct from start to finish. Newcastle fans (a massive portion of them that is) are this clubs worst enemy. Its taken me a long time to accept that but I finally have in recent months. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 04:20:31 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:18:25 PM 100% correct from start to finish. Newcastle fans (a massive portion of them that is) are this clubs worst enemy. Its taken me a long time to accept that but I finally have in recent months. You're talking here about those 'fans' who supported Souness, of course. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: buzza on April 13, 2006, 04:23:10 PM It's a mixture of both problems IMHO. Luque hasn't "shown" enough interest whilst on the pitch and the fans haven't given him more than five minutes before turning on him.
You know the saying "once burnt, twice shy...", I think this also has a negative impact on how our fans percieve foreign imports especially the spanish ones (see marceline-yourpockets)???? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:31:11 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 04:18:01 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:12:34 PM Yeah the same man who keeps taking off our best player (Solano) at crucial times in games just to give Dyer a run out. We nearly threw away 2 points against Boro because of it. Anyone with half a brain could see that the obvious choice was to take off Shearer (who was once again useless) for Dyer and keep our best player on the pitch to keep possesion in midfield. Roeder has done far better then Souness no doubt, but he isn't perfect. No, he isn't perfect, mate. Roeder sees Luque day in, day out. Do you not believe that if he was watching a person who was showing the right attitude to succeed, a person who is showing a hunger and desire to play for the club and who is as good as some on here think he is, that Roeder would be selecting him? Why do you think he isn't getting much of a look in even when he's fit? That's the thing, I don't know and neither does anyone else here. I'm certainly not going to assume things about Luque based on the idea that Roeder can do no wrong, I don't know the man or his relationship with Luque. The way I see it a player has to play to be able to adapt to a new league. Roeder has never claimed to have a problem with Luque in training (quite the opposite), therefore to never give him a real chance in all the games we've had since his appointment is totally crazy to me. There have been times when we're 3:1 up and cruising, playing good Football and Roeder has waited until we are at 3:2 and scraping for the three points before bringing Luque on for yet another pointless 5 minutes. The fact that Luque was dropped completely out of the squad in the first place when Roeder arrived (after the Man City game, when he was actually one of our better players) was crazy then and it still is now. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:36:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 04:20:31 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:18:25 PM 100% correct from start to finish. Newcastle fans (a massive portion of them that is) are this clubs worst enemy. Its taken me a long time to accept that but I finally have in recent months. You're talking here about those 'fans' who supported Souness, of course. Not specifically no. I'm talking about the 'fans' who are so stupid they expect every player to be an instant hit or he's "crap and we need to sell him immediately". I'm talking about the 'fans' who have absolutely no patience and constantly urge the team to attack or else suffer a round of boo's. Anyway I'm going out for the night, this is too depressing to talk about :( Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Tachikoma on April 13, 2006, 04:44:19 PM Quote: Newcastle fans (a massive portion of them that is) are this clubs worst enemy. Its taken me a long time to accept that but I finally have in recent months. Well... newcastle fans are also the only reason this club is considered a big club =P Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 04:48:15 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:36:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 04:20:31 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:18:25 PM 100% correct from start to finish. Newcastle fans (a massive portion of them that is) are this clubs worst enemy. Its taken me a long time to accept that but I finally have in recent months. You're talking here about those 'fans' who supported Souness, of course. Not specifically no. I'm talking about the 'fans' who are so stupid they expect every player to be an instant hit or he's "crap and we need to sell him immediately". I'm talking about the 'fans' who have absolutely no patience and constantly urge the team to attack or else suffer a round of boo's. Anyway I'm going out, this is too depressing :( My post was a joke, mate. But in any case, that's a fine definition you came up with but I don't make any connection between that and people posting things on here about Luque. Anyway, regarding your last post about Luque. It seems to me that if Luque was as good as some think he is he would be in the team if not for problems with his attitude. This is obviously a guess, but a good player who is fit and who wants to play doesn't leave many reasons for their exclusion. It's fair to say that none of us know for sure, but there must be something. I don't believe for a moment that Roeder would treat players like shite the way Souness does, putting 'making a bullying type of point' ahead of what's best for the team. I may be wrong, perhaps Wullie may tell me, as he's so sure Luque should be selected. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 04:58:31 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 13, 2006, 04:18:25 PM Quote from: SLK on April 13, 2006, 02:13:42 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 13, 2006, 01:06:57 PM Quote from: Gemmill on April 13, 2006, 12:58:28 PM You can't take the example of two different players at different clubs who both put in crap performances when they first arrived, and immediately jump to the conclusion that the two situations would have worked out the same if we'd done what Boro did. They're different players, different characters (Rochemback appears to have some). He's played a hell of a lot more though, he's been given the time to adapt. Why is it always us that seem to end up with these players who "can't adapt" like Luque and Viana. Most people tend to claim it's to do with the style of the game in Spain and Portugal, but it doesn't seem to be a problem whenever anyone else signs a player from these countries, especially ones as highly coveted as Luque and Viana. Some adapt better than others and some never reach the heights they had previously, but rarely do they turn out the complete duck-eggs we end up with time and time again. Is that simply coincidence? Have a look at Rochemback's performance against sunderland at the Riverside. Character, ability, whatever you want to call it, he looked like a Sunday League player and I'm told that was what he was like most of the time before recently, when he was playing in a Boro side that was getting beaten from pillar to post every single week, much like Luque's appearances with us under Souness. Exactly mate...SPOT ON...If Viana and Luque were at Man U or Aresenal they would have already been adapted and scoring hatricks by now... The problem is with NUFC and some of its so called FANS... NO SUPPORT, not standing together, not giving chances to our expensive and world class foreign players to adapt and show their class when they are low in moral and down... 100% correct from start to finish. Newcastle fans (a massive portion of them that is) are this clubs worst enemy. Its taken me a long time to accept that but I finally have in recent months. Really ? How many games have you went to and not been on here instead ? It's fairly simple. Some of us have good judgement, and some of us don't. Never ceases to make me smile that people think performing fancy tricks is talent. Talent is making good decisons on the football pitch, and having the heart, desire and determination to make them happen the way you want. How long has it "taken you to accept it" BTW, 40 years of paying your hard cash, time and travelling ? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: buzza on April 13, 2006, 05:06:02 PM Quote: Talent is making good decisons on the football pitch (or any other place of work), and having the heart, desire and determination to make them happen the way you want. Excellent phrase that, and I am in 100% agreement with it! Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: JamesD on April 13, 2006, 05:08:33 PM i love how everyone is pretty much saying he is shit after getting a game or maybe 10 minutes in here and there. shola has had an extended run in the team, and hes began scoring goals. anyone who actually plays football knows that it takes a bit of time to find form, and i can imagine how much more time it would take after moving from spain to england, having a horrible hamsting tear, being in a team which plays a very different style of football that you are accustomed to, only getting 10 minute run outs, AND having half the fans giving you shit while on the field. give luque a run of 5-10 starts in the team, and then judge him.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: wor jackie on April 13, 2006, 05:32:17 PM i apologise if i'm wrong but i have a season ticket and have been to every home game this season and i have not seen the crowd get on luque's back. what i do remember is when he's came on and whatever the result, he's the first down the tunnel and hasn't acknowledged the fans once.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: JamesD on April 13, 2006, 05:58:18 PM oh sorry, thought i had heard pockets of fans had been booing him while on the field. but the rest of what i wrote stands..
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: wor jackie on April 13, 2006, 06:07:28 PM i have honestly never heard any booing, certainly not from the N-E corner anyway. whenever he has came on all i can hear is a roar of willingness, except he kind of lets them down
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 06:08:59 PM Quote from: wor jackie on April 13, 2006, 06:07:28 PM i have honestly never heard any booing, certainly not from the N-E corner anyway. whenever he has came on all i can hear is a roar of willingness, except he kind of lets them down you can tell who doesn't go to matches, when you see people saying this and agreeing with it. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: wor jackie on April 13, 2006, 06:26:29 PM you saying i don't go to matches like?
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 06:30:23 PM Quote from: wor jackie on April 13, 2006, 06:26:29 PM you saying i don't go to matches like? eh ? nah man..the ones who say they boo him... blueconfused.gif Actually we have always had to listen to this, people think that because a player is criticised on message boards they are criticised at the games, there has been numerous accusations of this about Ameobi as well, but they only think this because they aren't there.... bluebiggrin.gif Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: wor jackie on April 13, 2006, 06:32:02 PM ah reet!
I'm a div bluebiggrin.gif Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 06:34:48 PM Quote from: wor jackie on April 13, 2006, 06:32:02 PM ah reet! I'm a div bluebiggrin.gif my mistake mate .... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 06:52:34 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. And those people who refute the argument that the fans who go to the matches get a better view, and are therefore in a better position to judge seem to be those who haven't been anywhere near the ground in their lives. Thought I'd mention it, like. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Verlaine on April 13, 2006, 06:59:09 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 06:52:34 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. And those people who refute the argument that the fans who go to the matches get a better view, and are therefore in a better position to judge seem to be those who haven't been anywhere near the ground in their lives. Thought I'd mention it, like. I don't see how that has any relevence when you're responding to a post by someone who actually goes to the matches and so is pretty well-placed to judge both sides of that particular argument. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 07:23:02 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 06:52:34 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. And those people who refute the argument that the fans who go to the matches get a better view, and are therefore in a better position to judge seem to be those who haven't been anywhere near the ground in their lives. Thought I'd mention it, like. There is no such advantage when it comes to simple things like whether a player has been booed or not. This might surprise you but those who dont go to matches have access to the media where things are pretty audible, can read websites and newspapers and usually have friends who can tell them what happened after they've returned from the matches. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 07:28:20 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. If you mean me, then 1. A poster made a comment about Newcastle fans being "a waste of space" [words to that effect]. Having supported the team for over 40 years I don't consider that to be a waste of space, and certainly am entitled to say a person who appears to not go to games appears to know, well, not very much. Especially when he gets facts wrong. 2. It also entitles ANYONE who does go to games to correct such a statement, especially when they know them to be incorrrect, due to the fact they have actually witnessed, or in this case not, the event in question !! Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 09:51:06 PM Quote from: Verlaine on April 13, 2006, 06:59:09 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 06:52:34 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. And those people who refute the argument that the fans who go to the matches get a better view, and are therefore in a better position to judge seem to be those who haven't been anywhere near the ground in their lives. Thought I'd mention it, like. I don't see how that has any relevence when you're responding to a post by someone who actually goes to the matches and so is pretty well-placed to judge both sides of that particular argument. :roll: Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Taylor on April 13, 2006, 09:56:47 PM Quote from: NE5 on April 13, 2006, 07:28:20 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. If you mean me, then 1. A poster made a comment about Newcastle fans being "a waste of space" [words to that effect]. Having supported the team for over 40 years I don't consider that to be a waste of space, and certainly am entitled to say a person who appears to not go to games appears to know, well, not very much. Especially when he gets facts wrong. 2. It also entitles ANYONE who does go to games to correct such a statement, especially when they know them to be incorrrect, due to the fact they have actually witnessed, or in this case not, the event in question !! Well if that is aimed at me then you miss read my post. I never said fans are a "waste of space", I sais that SOME fans go along and boo the team, by that I do not mean every fan, and it is them, not people who post dislikes on this board that cause problems with players and if you say no one at the ground boo Luque then your kidding yourself mate. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Northern Monkey on April 13, 2006, 09:58:10 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 07:23:02 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 06:52:34 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. And those people who refute the argument that the fans who go to the matches get a better view, and are therefore in a better position to judge seem to be those who haven't been anywhere near the ground in their lives. Thought I'd mention it, like. There is no such advantage when it comes to simple things like whether a player has been booed or not. This might surprise you but those who dont go to matches have access to the media where things are pretty audible, can read websites and newspapers and usually have friends who can tell them what happened after they've returned from the matches. You're right. Second hand information or a load of shite in the press (remember them largely ignoring the many "SOuness Out" chants at games? is much better than actually being there. Next you'll be saying that you can judge players in a game just as well by watcing it on telly. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: sicko2ndbest on April 14, 2006, 11:34:57 AM Luque's in from the coldApr 14 2006
By Alan Oliver, The Evening Chronicle Albert Luque may come in out of the cold at Newcastle United after having some sun on his back this week. And while tomorrow's match with Wigan Athletic may come too early for the Spanish striker, boss Glenn Roeder plans to use his full squad in the Easter double header - and Luque could find himself back in the picture at Sunderland on Monday. Roeder told me today: "Albert returned to training last Friday after his ankle injury and we let him go back to Spain at the weekend. "He has come back with a spring in his step and worked really hard in training this week, and we will have another look at him today before deciding whether to put him in our Easter squad. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: [olly] on April 14, 2006, 12:36:43 PM Newcastle (from): Given, Carr, Babayaro, Elliott, Ramage, Moore, Bramble, Solano, Emre, Bowyer, N'Zogbia, Shearer, Ameobi, Harper, Boumsong, Clark, Faye, Chopra, Luque.
Back in the squad according to the Beeb. No Dyer tho..... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Verlaine on April 14, 2006, 12:44:24 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 09:51:06 PM Quote from: Verlaine on April 13, 2006, 06:59:09 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 06:52:34 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. And those people who refute the argument that the fans who go to the matches get a better view, and are therefore in a better position to judge seem to be those who haven't been anywhere near the ground in their lives. Thought I'd mention it, like. I don't see how that has any relevence when you're responding to a post by someone who actually goes to the matches and so is pretty well-placed to judge both sides of that particular argument. :roll: Touche, I feel well and truly cowed and insignificant. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 12:55:01 PM Quote from: Verlaine on April 14, 2006, 12:44:24 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 09:51:06 PM Quote from: Verlaine on April 13, 2006, 06:59:09 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 13, 2006, 06:52:34 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 13, 2006, 06:47:19 PM Well I've been to a fair share of home matches and there is definitely booing from the Milburn Stand. Btw pulling off the I've been to games so I know better is a cheap shot usually used when one has run out of ideas to argue. Similar to the dad who says, "I'm the father so I know best". Pathetic really. And those people who refute the argument that the fans who go to the matches get a better view, and are therefore in a better position to judge seem to be those who haven't been anywhere near the ground in their lives. Thought I'd mention it, like. I don't see how that has any relevence when you're responding to a post by someone who actually goes to the matches and so is pretty well-placed to judge both sides of that particular argument. :roll: Touche, I feel well and truly cowed and insignificant. Just as well that wasn't the intention. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 14, 2006, 01:28:12 PM Luque doesn't give a toss about NUFC.... FACT!
I go to the matches i should know! I've been watching us play for forty years! Some people don't even know what they are talking about, probably the same people who supported Souness. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH! 6 pages of repeated bollocks and counter-bollocks. I'll believe what Roeder believes : "He has come back with a spring in his step and worked really hard in training this week," What a arsehole this spanish mercinary is! Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 14, 2006, 01:51:35 PM Quote from: sicko2ndbest on April 14, 2006, 11:34:57 AM Luque's in from the coldApr 14 2006 By Alan Oliver, The Evening Chronicle Albert Luque may come in out of the cold at Newcastle United after having some sun on his back this week. And while tomorrow's match with Wigan Athletic may come too early for the Spanish striker, boss Glenn Roeder plans to use his full squad in the Easter double header - and Luque could find himself back in the picture at Sunderland on Monday. Roeder told me today: "Albert returned to training last Friday after his ankle injury and we let him go back to Spain at the weekend. "He has come back with a spring in his step and worked really hard in training this week, and we will have another look at him today before deciding whether to put him in our Easter squad. crushing verdict on a 9.5m quid, 28 year old experienced player, whichever way you want to look at it Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 14, 2006, 01:53:37 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 14, 2006, 01:28:12 PM Luque doesn't give a toss about NUFC.... FACT! I go to the matches i should know! I've been watching us play for forty years! Some people don't even know what they are talking about, probably the same people who supported Souness. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH! 6 pages of repeated bollocks and counter-bollocks. I'll believe what Roeder believes : "He has come back with a spring in his step and worked really hard in training this week," What a arsehole this spanish mercinary is! Says everything really, especially your complete misreading and lack of ability to grasp the significance of the last line Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:11:35 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 14, 2006, 01:28:12 PM Luque doesn't give a toss about NUFC.... FACT! I go to the matches i should know! I've been watching us play for forty years! Some people don't even know what they are talking about, probably the same people who supported Souness. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH! 6 pages of repeated bollocks and counter-bollocks. I'll believe what Roeder believes : "He has come back with a spring in his step and worked really hard in training this week," What a arsehole this spanish mercinary is! So will I. Which is the point I made earlier. Roeder sees this bloke day in, day out and yet for some reason hasn't been selecting this great player. Why? We don't have very many great players, you'd think if he was great he'd be in the team. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:16:40 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey. He's had a fair chance to show that he wants to at least be on the pitch in a black and white shirt. He hasn't had a fair chance if anybody is expecting him to score 25 goals this season, but then nobody is judging him like that. The assertion that those who are pissed off with his lack of effort want him to fail is ridiculous. The people who support Newcastle United want all of the players to succeed, we don't want anybody to fail. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 03:23:51 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:16:40 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey. He's had a fair chance to show that he wants to at least be on the pitch in a black and white shirt. He hasn't had a fair chance if anybody is expecting him to score 25 goals this season, but then nobody is judging him like that. The assertion that those who are pissed off with his lack of effort want him to fail is ridiculous. The people who support Newcastle United want all of the players to succeed, we don't want anybody to fail. At which point in my posting did I mention that those who are pissed off at him want him to fail? Your are seriously getting deluded, reading far too much even in a neutrel post. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 04:17:14 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 03:23:51 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:16:40 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey. He's had a fair chance to show that he wants to at least be on the pitch in a black and white shirt. He hasn't had a fair chance if anybody is expecting him to score 25 goals this season, but then nobody is judging him like that. The assertion that those who are pissed off with his lack of effort want him to fail is ridiculous. The people who support Newcastle United want all of the players to succeed, we don't want anybody to fail. At which point in my posting did I mention that those who are pissed off at him want him to fail? Your are seriously getting deluded, reading far too much even in a neutrel post. How about.... " Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. The implication of your comment is obvious. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 04:36:21 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 04:17:14 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 03:23:51 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:16:40 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey. He's had a fair chance to show that he wants to at least be on the pitch in a black and white shirt. He hasn't had a fair chance if anybody is expecting him to score 25 goals this season, but then nobody is judging him like that. The assertion that those who are pissed off with his lack of effort want him to fail is ridiculous. The people who support Newcastle United want all of the players to succeed, we don't want anybody to fail. At which point in my posting did I mention that those who are pissed off at him want him to fail? Your are seriously getting deluded, reading far too much even in a neutrel post. How about.... " Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. The implication of your comment is obvious. I think u'll find that forming an opinion of Luque as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary is not mutually exclusive with wanting him to succeed. I for one think Bowyer is a useless midifielder who offers nothing to the team beyond pretending that he is interested but that does not mean that I want him to fail when he puts on the jersey. Hope that is not too complicated. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 08:42:50 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 04:36:21 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 04:17:14 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 03:23:51 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:16:40 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey. He's had a fair chance to show that he wants to at least be on the pitch in a black and white shirt. He hasn't had a fair chance if anybody is expecting him to score 25 goals this season, but then nobody is judging him like that. The assertion that those who are pissed off with his lack of effort want him to fail is ridiculous. The people who support Newcastle United want all of the players to succeed, we don't want anybody to fail. At which point in my posting did I mention that those who are pissed off at him want him to fail? Your are seriously getting deluded, reading far too much even in a neutrel post. How about.... " Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. The implication of your comment is obvious. I think u'll find that forming an opinion of Luque as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary is not mutually exclusive with wanting him to succeed. .............blah blah blah. Aye, if you say so, son. No need to mention it at all, if that's what you really think, like. Shite attempt at damage limitation. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 10:14:43 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 08:42:50 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 04:36:21 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 04:17:14 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 03:23:51 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:16:40 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey. He's had a fair chance to show that he wants to at least be on the pitch in a black and white shirt. He hasn't had a fair chance if anybody is expecting him to score 25 goals this season, but then nobody is judging him like that. The assertion that those who are pissed off with his lack of effort want him to fail is ridiculous. The people who support Newcastle United want all of the players to succeed, we don't want anybody to fail. At which point in my posting did I mention that those who are pissed off at him want him to fail? Your are seriously getting deluded, reading far too much even in a neutrel post. How about.... " Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. The implication of your comment is obvious. I think u'll find that forming an opinion of Luque as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary is not mutually exclusive with wanting him to succeed. .............blah blah blah. Aye, if you say so, son. No need to mention it at all, if that's what you really think, like..................followed by some lame response once proven wrong...........but really I shouldnt be suprised, should I You really should try at least to prove your point, otherwise dont bother replying. Let me guess now ur brilliant response will be bluesleep.gif. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Northern Monkey on April 14, 2006, 11:18:34 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:16:40 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey. He's had a fair chance to show that he wants to at least be on the pitch in a black and white shirt. He hasn't had a fair chance if anybody is expecting him to score 25 goals this season, but then nobody is judging him like that. The assertion that those who are pissed off with his lack of effort want him to fail is ridiculous. The people who support Newcastle United want all of the players to succeed, we don't want anybody to fail. All true, but until you accept that he is a world class player, the people who saw him twice for Depor, and have seen his showreel, will never stop harping on about how he should be given more time/acjknowledgement for stuff he hasn't done/367 consecutive games. They'll never accept the truth, which is that if jhe was that good/arsed, he'd have proven something even in the limited time he's had. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Ember on April 14, 2006, 11:35:50 PM Right, these many Luque topics are very annoying now...
I'm a big fan of Luque, but i'll meet you all half way. He is a world class player, without a doubt. Yes, his injury set him back, but still, he has showed no effort since coming back from his injury. The one good thing he's done is probably hit the post after rounding Schwarzer (i think, might have been t'other Boro keeper) in the Boro game in 2-2 draw in Jan. I really want him to succeed at the Toon, but I can't see it happening. Admittedly, i do think Roeder is being a bit petty. For god's sake man, just play him, let's give him a run out. At least give him 45 mins tomorrow vs Wigan I say. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: madras on April 14, 2006, 11:37:41 PM the way the chronic was reporting today i wouldn't be surprised to see ameobi and lique v's wigan and shearer, dyer v's those others.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Ally on April 14, 2006, 11:42:25 PM Quote from: Ember on April 14, 2006, 11:35:50 PM The one good thing he's done is probably hit the post after rounding Schwarzer (i think, might have been t'other Boro keeper) in the Boro game in 2-2 draw in Jan. Says a lot that his best contribution is missing an open goal :lol: Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: madras on April 14, 2006, 11:46:45 PM Quote from: Ally on April 14, 2006, 11:42:25 PM Quote from: Ember on April 14, 2006, 11:35:50 PM The one good thing he's done is probably hit the post after rounding Schwarzer (i think, might have been t'other Boro keeper) in the Boro game in 2-2 draw in Jan. Says a lot that his best contribution is missing an open goal :lol: Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Northern Monkey on April 15, 2006, 12:19:18 AM Quote from: madras on April 14, 2006, 11:46:45 PM Quote from: Ally on April 14, 2006, 11:42:25 PM Quote from: Ember on April 14, 2006, 11:35:50 PM The one good thing he's done is probably hit the post after rounding Schwarzer (i think, might have been t'other Boro keeper) in the Boro game in 2-2 draw in Jan. Says a lot that his best contribution is missing an open goal :lol: The point stands, though, that a player with his supposed ability would have done more by now if he wanted to. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:19:20 AM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 10:14:43 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 08:42:50 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 04:36:21 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 04:17:14 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 03:23:51 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 14, 2006, 02:16:40 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 14, 2006, 02:09:14 PM Its really pointless to continue this argument over and over again. Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. In fact we're so familiar with all the arguments that we already know who stands where. All there is to do now is wait and see and if he does play at any point, give him the support that u'd give to any player pulling the black and white jersey. He's had a fair chance to show that he wants to at least be on the pitch in a black and white shirt. He hasn't had a fair chance if anybody is expecting him to score 25 goals this season, but then nobody is judging him like that. The assertion that those who are pissed off with his lack of effort want him to fail is ridiculous. The people who support Newcastle United want all of the players to succeed, we don't want anybody to fail. At which point in my posting did I mention that those who are pissed off at him want him to fail? Your are seriously getting deluded, reading far too much even in a neutrel post. How about.... " Some of us want to give him a fair chance and wants him to succeed whereas others have already passed their judgement over him as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary. The implication of your comment is obvious. I think u'll find that forming an opinion of Luque as a lazy no heart Spanish mercenary is not mutually exclusive with wanting him to succeed. .............blah blah blah. Aye, if you say so, son. No need to mention it at all, if that's what you really think, like..................followed by some lame response once proven wrong...........but really I shouldnt be suprised, should I You really should try at least to prove your point, otherwise dont bother replying. Let me guess now ur brilliant response will be bluesleep.gif. Good edit. I don't need to bother, but I'll give you another chance to justify your position on Luque, I've justified mine and don't need to do so anymore. My belief is that someone has to earn their place in the team. I think you should tell me why a team that's playing well should be changed to accomodate a player who has not shown any desire to be seen in a black and white shirt. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: JawD on April 15, 2006, 07:37:57 AM Well, Id give him a chance, at least this season. In someplayers we've seen them have poor starts and come good when they got used to the game here (Nobby), but in others it never came (Andersson etc). So the gamble is there. My issue with him is his work rate, though I didnt know enough about him when he came to kow what his game was about. Maybe all he needs is a goal. Or maybe he aint never gonna change. I'd have him on the bench over the Easter and see how he faired. But baring a miracle, Id listen to offers in the summer. If nothing decent came in, Id prob think about keeping him. Be interesting to see what the new manager makes of him though.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 15, 2006, 09:15:44 AM Honestly, if I was the manager, I would give the first half for Shearer against Wigan and then put Luque for 45 minutes in the second half...Shearer can't play two 90 minutes games in three days...Too much...The best time to give Luque some run in the team...
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Skirge on April 15, 2006, 09:16:53 AM I think we will start Shearer Ameobi but then I would take Shearer off and give luque the full second half..
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Jaehyun on April 15, 2006, 09:32:59 AM Well after hearing all this about pea-sized hearts, and lazy mercenary etc etc etc...All i can say is that, i think we'll really see luque's character when our new manager comes in. If he really is lazy then he'll stay like he is, if he does have a determination and will to perform for us, he'll try desperately hard to impress the new manager, so lets lay off the luque judgements until we see how he reacts to the signing of our new manager.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Rodhaminho on April 15, 2006, 06:39:08 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? Because every other player has played since Souness went. Simple answer for a truly idiotic question. Next? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:39:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? He's only played 71 minutes? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NobbySolano on April 15, 2006, 06:41:02 PM Quote from: Ally on April 14, 2006, 11:42:25 PM Quote from: Ember on April 14, 2006, 11:35:50 PM The one good thing he's done is probably hit the post after rounding Schwarzer (i think, might have been t'other Boro keeper) in the Boro game in 2-2 draw in Jan. Says a lot that his best contribution is missing an open goal :lol: he scored against man u! ...but it was disallowed Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:43:58 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 15, 2006, 06:39:08 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? Because every other player has played since Souness went. Simple answer for a truly idiotic question. Next? :roll: Engage your brain son. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:52:29 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:39:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? He's only played 71 minutes? You only count minutes on the pitch? Why's that? You're not taking into account the manager being in contact with all of the players on a daily basis. On match days the fans see the evidence of the improvement in their attitude, fitness, general confidence and self belief on the field of play, but that's an accumulation of things going on every single day. It doesn't just happen on the field of play on a match day. The bloke above my initial post made a point that the next manager may get more from Luque, my post was prompted by that because we already have another manager here since the souness debacle. Roeder may only be temporary, but the rest of the players are responding positively to him. The manager selects the players based on what he sees day in, day out. Luque hasn't improved enough to be selected ahead of the likes of Ameobi and Chopra. Says something, that does. Given the improvement in the rest of the players and the team in general, the answer isn't to suggest that Roeder is an idiot, not that you would say that Wullie but this 'rod' bloke may do, as he likes to throw the 'idiot' word around when he has no constructive point to make. You may not agree, but I expect you to at least understand what I'm on about. Cheers Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:58:12 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:52:29 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:39:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? He's only played 71 minutes? You only count minutes on the pitch? Why's that? You're not taking into account the manager being in contact with all of the players on a daily basis. On match days the fans see the evidence of the improvement in their attitude, fitness, general confidence and self belief on the field of play, but that's an accumulation of things going on every single day. It doesn't just happen on the field of play on a match day. The bloke above my initial post made a point that the next manager may get more from Luque, my post was prompted by that because we already have another manager here since the souness debacle. Roeder may only be temporary, but the rest of the players are responding positively to him. The manager selects the players based on what he sees day in, day out. Luque hasn't improved enough to be selected ahead of the likes of Ameobi and Chopra. Says something, that does. Given the improvement in the rest of the players and the team in general, the answer isn't to suggest that Roeder is an idiot, not that you would say that Wullie but this 'rod' bloke may do, as he likes to throw the 'idiot' word around when he has no constructive point to make. You may not agree, but I expect you to at least understand what I'm on about. Cheers So you're saying Luque hasn't improved, but you have no actual evidence of this other than Glenn Roeder's say so? When we see Luque on the field of play for more than a few brief cameos at the arse end of games, that's when he should be judged on whether he has improved under Roeder or not. The team as a whole has improved and we're playing much better stuff, you can't possibly judge in training how he responds to 90 minutes of good football in a real game. He's been injured for the last few weeks as well, otherwise he may have been chosen. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Teasy on April 15, 2006, 07:08:24 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:43:58 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 15, 2006, 06:39:08 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? Because every other player has played since Souness went. Simple answer for a truly idiotic question. Next? :roll: Engage your brain son. He, unlike you, did use his brain... son. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:32:02 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:58:12 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:52:29 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:39:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? He's only played 71 minutes? You only count minutes on the pitch? Why's that? You're not taking into account the manager being in contact with all of the players on a daily basis. On match days the fans see the evidence of the improvement in their attitude, fitness, general confidence and self belief on the field of play, but that's an accumulation of things going on every single day. It doesn't just happen on the field of play on a match day. The bloke above my initial post made a point that the next manager may get more from Luque, my post was prompted by that because we already have another manager here since the souness debacle. Roeder may only be temporary, but the rest of the players are responding positively to him. The manager selects the players based on what he sees day in, day out. Luque hasn't improved enough to be selected ahead of the likes of Ameobi and Chopra. Says something, that does. Given the improvement in the rest of the players and the team in general, the answer isn't to suggest that Roeder is an idiot, not that you would say that Wullie but this 'rod' bloke may do, as he likes to throw the 'idiot' word around when he has no constructive point to make. You may not agree, but I expect you to at least understand what I'm on about. Cheers So you're saying Luque hasn't improved, but you have no actual evidence of this other than Glenn Roeder's say so? When we see Luque on the field of play for more than a few brief cameos at the arse end of games, that's when he should be judged on whether he has improved under Roeder or not. The team as a whole has improved and we're playing much better stuff, you can't possibly judge in training how he responds to 90 minutes of good football in a real game. He's been injured for the last few weeks as well, otherwise he may have been chosen. Has Roeder said that, Wullie? I'm not aware of him saying that, perhaps he has. I'm going by the simple fact that if the bloke had done enough to be selected he would have been selected. It is the actions of Roeder I'm going by, not bluster. If Luque's generally crap attitude had improved since the departure of Souness he would be selected by Roeder, would he not? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:33:40 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 15, 2006, 07:08:24 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:43:58 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 15, 2006, 06:39:08 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? Because every other player has played since Souness went. Simple answer for a truly idiotic question. Next? :roll: Engage your brain son. He, unlike you, did use his brain... son. One of your most interesting, football filled discussion points. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 15, 2006, 07:36:02 PM Quote from: Teasy on April 15, 2006, 07:08:24 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:43:58 PM Quote from: Rodhaminho on April 15, 2006, 06:39:08 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? Because every other player has played since Souness went. Simple answer for a truly idiotic question. Next? :roll: Engage your brain son. He, unlike you, did use his brain... son. oh dear, are we still getting people who want to change a winning team for a bloke who's done nothing Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 15, 2006, 07:37:35 PM Quote from: SLK on April 15, 2006, 09:15:44 AM Honestly, if I was the manager, I would give the first half for Shearer against Wigan and then put Luque for 45 minutes in the second half...Shearer can't play two 90 minutes games in three days...Too much...The best time to give Luque some run in the team... Glad you weren;t the manager today then Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:40:13 PM Quote from: NE5 on April 15, 2006, 07:37:35 PM Quote from: SLK on April 15, 2006, 09:15:44 AM Honestly, if I was the manager, I would give the first half for Shearer against Wigan and then put Luque for 45 minutes in the second half...Shearer can't play two 90 minutes games in three days...Too much...The best time to give Luque some run in the team... Glad you weren;t the manager today then No vacancy anyway. Fred's the manager. ;) Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 07:51:23 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:32:02 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:58:12 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:52:29 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:39:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? He's only played 71 minutes? You only count minutes on the pitch? Why's that? You're not taking into account the manager being in contact with all of the players on a daily basis. On match days the fans see the evidence of the improvement in their attitude, fitness, general confidence and self belief on the field of play, but that's an accumulation of things going on every single day. It doesn't just happen on the field of play on a match day. The bloke above my initial post made a point that the next manager may get more from Luque, my post was prompted by that because we already have another manager here since the souness debacle. Roeder may only be temporary, but the rest of the players are responding positively to him. The manager selects the players based on what he sees day in, day out. Luque hasn't improved enough to be selected ahead of the likes of Ameobi and Chopra. Says something, that does. Given the improvement in the rest of the players and the team in general, the answer isn't to suggest that Roeder is an idiot, not that you would say that Wullie but this 'rod' bloke may do, as he likes to throw the 'idiot' word around when he has no constructive point to make. You may not agree, but I expect you to at least understand what I'm on about. Cheers So you're saying Luque hasn't improved, but you have no actual evidence of this other than Glenn Roeder's say so? When we see Luque on the field of play for more than a few brief cameos at the arse end of games, that's when he should be judged on whether he has improved under Roeder or not. The team as a whole has improved and we're playing much better stuff, you can't possibly judge in training how he responds to 90 minutes of good football in a real game. He's been injured for the last few weeks as well, otherwise he may have been chosen. Has Roeder said that, Wullie? I'm not aware of him saying that, perhaps he has. I'm going by the simple fact that if the bloke had done enough to be selected he would have been selected. It is the actions of Roeder I'm going by, not bluster. If Luque's generally crap attitude had improved since the departure of Souness he would be selected by Roeder, would he not? By this, again you seem to be assuming that Roeder's judgement is impeccable. I'd rather Luque was given the chance to show one way or the other whether he is good enough or not on the field of play. If you think letting the caretaker manager write off a £10m player having only seen 71 minutes of him in play is ok, then fine. I'd prefer to give Luque the chance to prove that he can be good enough for NUFC. If he can't, fine, see what we can get. But we don't know yet that he can't, not as far as I'm concerned anyway. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:59:26 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 07:51:23 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:32:02 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:58:12 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:52:29 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:39:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? He's only played 71 minutes? You only count minutes on the pitch? Why's that? You're not taking into account the manager being in contact with all of the players on a daily basis. On match days the fans see the evidence of the improvement in their attitude, fitness, general confidence and self belief on the field of play, but that's an accumulation of things going on every single day. It doesn't just happen on the field of play on a match day. The bloke above my initial post made a point that the next manager may get more from Luque, my post was prompted by that because we already have another manager here since the souness debacle. Roeder may only be temporary, but the rest of the players are responding positively to him. The manager selects the players based on what he sees day in, day out. Luque hasn't improved enough to be selected ahead of the likes of Ameobi and Chopra. Says something, that does. Given the improvement in the rest of the players and the team in general, the answer isn't to suggest that Roeder is an idiot, not that you would say that Wullie but this 'rod' bloke may do, as he likes to throw the 'idiot' word around when he has no constructive point to make. You may not agree, but I expect you to at least understand what I'm on about. Cheers So you're saying Luque hasn't improved, but you have no actual evidence of this other than Glenn Roeder's say so? When we see Luque on the field of play for more than a few brief cameos at the arse end of games, that's when he should be judged on whether he has improved under Roeder or not. The team as a whole has improved and we're playing much better stuff, you can't possibly judge in training how he responds to 90 minutes of good football in a real game. He's been injured for the last few weeks as well, otherwise he may have been chosen. Has Roeder said that, Wullie? I'm not aware of him saying that, perhaps he has. I'm going by the simple fact that if the bloke had done enough to be selected he would have been selected. It is the actions of Roeder I'm going by, not bluster. If Luque's generally crap attitude had improved since the departure of Souness he would be selected by Roeder, would he not? By this, again you seem to be assuming that Roeder's judgement is impeccable. I'd rather Luque was given the chance to show one way or the other whether he is good enough or not on the field of play. If you think letting the caretaker manager write off a £10m player having only seen 71 minutes of him in play is ok, then fine. I'd prefer to give Luque the chance to prove that he can be good enough for NUFC. If he can't, fine, see what we can get. But we don't know yet that he can't, not as far as I'm concerned anyway. Not at all, everyone makes mistakes so I'm not sure why you think I reckon Roeder's judgement is impeccable. In fact, I was slated a while back for believing that I didn't think Roeder would be any good should Souness be sacked and he become caretaker. I was wrong on that one, because he's proving to be doing a very sound job in this temporary role. I don't see Roeder as being anything like a bullying, vindictive type like Souness. My opinion is that there must be a reason why someone of the supposed ability of Luque is not being selected by a manager who appears to treat people fairly. There simply MUST be a reason why Roeder isn't selecting him, whether people want to acknowledge it or not. What do YOU think the reason is? If he has ability, and if he is fit, it must be something else. Given his lack of interest when he has appeared it seems logical to believe it is his attitude that is being questioned and it is that which hasn't improved. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Ally on April 15, 2006, 08:38:12 PM Agree with you there HTL, been saying that for a while now.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythetoon on April 15, 2006, 09:31:40 PM Disappointed he didn't feature and I think it's about time fans were given a proper explanation for his continued absence as with every passing game he doesn't play, the speculation and conjecture intensifies, often wildly and without foundation - i.e. the gist of this thread.
"Is his heart in it?" "Does Roeder have a personal problem with him"? Here we have an expensive footballer, a talented one, who regardless, is of no use to us whatsoever as an asset, saleable or otherwise, while he's not playing. I'm sure he would rather be playing than not even if he is unhappy, I'm sure fans, even those who have been on his back from day one, would like to see a little return from this expensive and ill thought out investment. It would be typical of our club to flog him for a cut price deal having not had any real chance to show what he can or can not do and I'd be pissed off if that happens. I'm prepared to turn the other cheek if he isn;t showing commitment in training or if his heart isn't quite in it because he won't be the first foreign player to struggle coming to terms with adapting or living "another life". Ronaldo at Man Utd showed a lack of commitment in training during his first season at the club but Ferguson, being the experienced and knowledgeable manager he is recognised that in some cases, you have to be patient, you have to take these things in order to get some kind of pay back out of an investment. As fans we are far too cynical, far too impatient and far too ignorant at times and we are our own worst enemy in these situations. Football is riddled with players signing for big money, showing a lack of heart and generally proving to a be a waste of space before finally coming good. Usually you'll find these players at the Arsenal's, the Man Utd's, the Chelsea's, the Liverpool's. Newcastle? I give you Viana, Goma, Robert to a lesser extent and other foreign players who have all flopped here in one form or another. At club's like Arsenal the foreign flop is the exception to the rule, at United it's the complete reverse, Nobby, Pav, Albert, there aren't many foreign players who have made a name for themselves on Tyneside on and off the park. Coincidence or is there an underlying issue with our club? For me, it's the latter. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 09:42:56 PM Blaming the club, as usual mate.
A player having no commitment is nothing to do with the club, it's a personal issue for the player. We've had plenty of foreign players succeed at this club and there have been loads of foreigners flop at others, even the clubs you mention. As for " wild conjecture and speculation ".....are you telling me that these gutless performances we've seen whenever Luque has appeared are just a bad dream, or something? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythetoon on April 15, 2006, 10:03:29 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 09:42:56 PM Blaming the club, as usual mate. A player having no commitment is nothing to do with the club, it's a personal issue for the player. We've had plenty of foreign players succeed at this club and there have been loads of foreigners flop at others, even the clubs you mention. As for " wild conjecture and speculation ".....are you telling me that these gutless performances we've seen whenever Luque has appeared are just a bad dream, or something? I disagree, I think the environment around a player dictates pretty much everything with a footballer, whether it be in the head, off the pitch or on it. Some players, rare examples I might add, can perform regardless, these players are highly focused, independent, strong minded individuals like Shearer for example and are at the top of the tree so to speak. Some can get by, players like Bowyer who despite being played out of position numerous times, been plaugued by injury numerous times and faced numerous other difficulties, has shown once or twice he can play for this club. Others fall to pieces and need all the help, patience, kicking, understanding and coaxing they can, players like Luque, players like Robert maybe? I couldn't perfom as a web designer living in spain, with one hand broken, with the software all in Spanish, me missing home, missing my friends and my family, and with limited access to my computer, my heart wouldn't be in it regardless of pay or the challenge. And yes I do blame the club, and always will until I see with my own two eyes conclusively that Luque isn't interested and never will be[/b[ or that he doesn't have the talent required to the point where is becomes a lost cause. "Never will be" being the key phrase here. This time next year he could be banging them in for fun, tearing new holes in defences up and down the country. Or maybe not. I don't blame him for not being interested or for not having the heart, I can dettach my emotionional attachment to NUFC and my primary concern for the club in cases like this because I firmly believe there is no such thing as can't or a lost cause, not with a highly talented player who has only been here a shit and a shave anyway who to be fair, and lets be honest here, hasn't had the best starts to life as a Newcastle United player, most of it no fault of his own. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: JamesD on April 16, 2006, 12:03:10 AM i vote for no more talk about luque untill we've seen enough of him to judge properly.
people who acutally play football no that it can take a lot of time to find form. thats true for everyone. add to that the fact that he is in a new country, having to be with all new people, coming off the worst injury of his career and playing a style of football very different from the kind hes been playing all of his life. people need to get off his back and quit giving him crap when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. lets have this conversation after he gets a good run of games in, and if he is shit, i'll say so, but dont judge him off of the little amount of time hes gotten this year. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Wullie on April 16, 2006, 12:11:29 AM Spot on posts HTT.
Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 16, 2006, 12:12:24 AM Quote from: JamesD on April 16, 2006, 12:03:10 AM i vote for no more talk about luque untill we've seen enough of him to judge properly. people who acutally play football no that it can take a lot of time to find form. thats true for everyone. add to that the fact that he is in a new country, having to be with all new people, coming off the worst injury of his career and playing a style of football very different from the kind hes been playing all of his life. people need to get off his back and quit giving him crap when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. lets have this conversation after he gets a good run of games in, and if he is shit, i'll say so, but dont judge him off of the little amount of time hes gotten this year. Sounds very reasonable but it wont be long before the football experts tell you that they already know based on what little they've seen of Luque that he: a) has no heart for NUFC b) is lazy in trainings coz messiah Roader doesnt pick him in games although strangely enough seems to praise him almost everytime interviewed. Just cant imagine any other possible reason for his exclusion such as maybe Roader wanting to give him more time to adapt and a brand new season to start afresh. Nah much easier to just say that he is lazy and is a waste of space. c) "just wont cut it in the EPL" Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Northern Monkey on April 16, 2006, 12:29:34 AM Quote from: JamesD on April 16, 2006, 12:03:10 AM i vote for no more talk about luque untill we've seen enough of him to judge properly. people who acutally play football no that it can take a lot of time to find form. thats true for everyone. add to that the fact that he is in a new country, having to be with all new people, coming off the worst injury of his career and playing a style of football very different from the kind hes been playing all of his life. people need to get off his back and quit giving him crap when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. lets have this conversation after he gets a good run of games in, and if he is shit, i'll say so, but dont judge him off of the little amount of time hes gotten this year. So you genuinely think that football is such a different game here that Luque shouldn't be expected to have provided even a few pieced of individual skill or ability??? You really buy into the injurt/new country/people excuses?? You must have fucking LOVED Souness. Seriously, do you claim to know better than Roeder, a coach who has fixed a LOT of Souness mistakes, and Shearer, arguably the greatest English striker of his generation, about whether Luque is good enough (for whatever reason) for NUFC??? Do you know exactly wahts happened on the training ground/behind closed doors??? I don't claim to know any of that bollolx. All i know is what i've seen with my own two eyes. And that is a player who has not been up to standard. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 16, 2006, 12:43:50 AM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 16, 2006, 12:29:34 AM Quote from: JamesD on April 16, 2006, 12:03:10 AM i vote for no more talk about luque untill we've seen enough of him to judge properly. people who acutally play football no that it can take a lot of time to find form. thats true for everyone. add to that the fact that he is in a new country, having to be with all new people, coming off the worst injury of his career and playing a style of football very different from the kind hes been playing all of his life. people need to get off his back and quit giving him crap when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. lets have this conversation after he gets a good run of games in, and if he is shit, i'll say so, but dont judge him off of the little amount of time hes gotten this year. So you genuinely think that football is such a different game here that Luque shouldn't be expected to have provided even a few pieced of individual skill or ability??? You really buy into the injurt/new country/people excuses?? You must have ****ing LOVED Souness. Seriously, do you claim to know better than Roeder, a coach who has fixed a LOT of Souness mistakes, and Shearer, arguably the greatest English striker of his generation, about whether Luque is good enough (for whatever reason) for NUFC??? Do you know exactly wahts happened on the training ground/behind closed doors??? I don't claim to know any of that bollolx. All i know is what i've seen with my own two eyes. And that is a player who has not been up to standard. First of all, I dont see whats the connection between wanting to reserve judgement on Luque and loving Souness? In fact if anything maybe ur hatred to Souness (which we all do) is tainting ur judgement on Luque i.e everything Souness did must be crap so Luque must be bad. 2nd we fundamentally differ in our assessmengt of Luque for the 71 minutes that he has played for Roader. Granted he has not reproduced his form for Depor, far from it but I still do see intelligent movement off the balls...no point arguing here coz we just disagree 3rd as for why Roader has not selected him ahead of Ameobi and Chopra, in absence of any explanation by Roader, isnt it a bit simplistic and presumptious to just assume that he has just been lazy and crap in trainings. Is it not possible that Roader has other reasons like to get Luque adapted properly to the EPL by more trainings and maybe a few reserves (which he was playing in till he got injured again). The simple fact is none of us knows what happens on the training ground and both sides are just churning out conjectures, so does it not make sense just like James said that we reserve our judgement till we see more of him to conclcusively decide either way or at least get some explanation from Roader. Why is giving more time to our own player who could be a big hit, did very well in La Liga and cost us 10 million pounds so difficult? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: JamesD on April 16, 2006, 12:50:43 AM okay...
1. genuinely different? no, but it would be very stupid to deny that english football is different from continental football, and even world class players need time to adjust. like...more than a few minutes here and there when the game is being killed off. 2. "You really buy into the injury/new country/people excuses??" i honestly dont know what to say to that because its stupidity speaks for itself. 3. the football played under souness was an embarresment, and not conducive to luques playing style at all. that is one reason why he hasnt had the best of starts. its hard to play well when the whole team is playing like shit. and i ****ing HATED souness. 4.i believe roeder has been saying exactly what im saying, which is let him have more time. i dont have any specific quotes, but what roeder says about luque is pretty much : good attitude in training, needs to bring up the fitness level(hence the reserve game and subsequent injury), give him time. whats that saying? "form is temporary, but class in permanent"? seems to fit quite well to luque's situation. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 16, 2006, 01:54:22 AM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 09:42:56 PM Blaming the club, as usual mate. A player having no commitment is nothing to do with the club, it's a personal issue for the player. We've had plenty of foreign players succeed at this club and there have been loads of foreigners flop at others, even the clubs you mention. As for " wild conjecture and speculation ".....are you telling me that these gutless performances we've seen whenever Luque has appeared are just a bad dream, or something? HTT...he's right. You are looking for, or insinuating an underlying reason that doesn't exist, treading the line of the Shepherd bashers. Blaming him for everything. It's a load of crap mate, it really is. If a player doesn't perform to the extent that luque hasn't, being the age he is, the experience he has, there is no point looking anywhere else other than the player himself. I simply can't believe that you of all people have been so taken in by the Shepherd bashers you are prepared to blame him, like them, for anything. It's like living in Scotland and finding the locals blaming the English for the bad weather. He isn't good enough, or rather, he isn't mentally alert or adaptable enough to want to make the change. Which is the same thing in the end. People have to accept responsibility for their own actions, and in this case a footballer has to accept the same for his lack of performance. Is he a man or a mouse.......and I know the answer to that one ....... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 07:35:02 AM Quote from: alpal78 on April 16, 2006, 12:12:24 AM Quote from: JamesD on April 16, 2006, 12:03:10 AM i vote for no more talk about luque untill we've seen enough of him to judge properly. people who acutally play football no that it can take a lot of time to find form. thats true for everyone. add to that the fact that he is in a new country, having to be with all new people, coming off the worst injury of his career and playing a style of football very different from the kind hes been playing all of his life. people need to get off his back and quit giving him crap when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. lets have this conversation after he gets a good run of games in, and if he is shit, i'll say so, but dont judge him off of the little amount of time hes gotten this year. Sounds very reasonable but it wont be long before the football experts tell you that they already know based on what little they've seen of Luque that he: a) has no heart for NUFC b) is lazy in trainings coz messiah Roader doesnt pick him in games although strangely enough seems to praise him almost everytime interviewed. Just cant imagine any other possible reason for his exclusion such as maybe Roader wanting to give him more time to adapt and a brand new season to start afresh. Nah much easier to just say that he is lazy and is a waste of space. c) "just wont cut it in the EPL" Those with opposing views to your own could just as easily post in the same sarcastic fashion about 'experts', blah blah blah. But they don't, only you do that. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Jaehyun on April 16, 2006, 09:46:08 AM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:32:02 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:58:12 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:52:29 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:39:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? He's only played 71 minutes? You only count minutes on the pitch? Why's that? You're not taking into account the manager being in contact with all of the players on a daily basis. On match days the fans see the evidence of the improvement in their attitude, fitness, general confidence and self belief on the field of play, but that's an accumulation of things going on every single day. It doesn't just happen on the field of play on a match day. The bloke above my initial post made a point that the next manager may get more from Luque, my post was prompted by that because we already have another manager here since the souness debacle. Roeder may only be temporary, but the rest of the players are responding positively to him. The manager selects the players based on what he sees day in, day out. Luque hasn't improved enough to be selected ahead of the likes of Ameobi and Chopra. Says something, that does. Given the improvement in the rest of the players and the team in general, the answer isn't to suggest that Roeder is an idiot, not that you would say that Wullie but this 'rod' bloke may do, as he likes to throw the 'idiot' word around when he has no constructive point to make. You may not agree, but I expect you to at least understand what I'm on about. Cheers So you're saying Luque hasn't improved, but you have no actual evidence of this other than Glenn Roeder's say so? When we see Luque on the field of play for more than a few brief cameos at the arse end of games, that's when he should be judged on whether he has improved under Roeder or not. The team as a whole has improved and we're playing much better stuff, you can't possibly judge in training how he responds to 90 minutes of good football in a real game. He's been injured for the last few weeks as well, otherwise he may have been chosen. Has Roeder said that, Wullie? I'm not aware of him saying that, perhaps he has. I'm going by the simple fact that if the bloke had done enough to be selected he would have been selected. It is the actions of Roeder I'm going by, not bluster. If Luque's generally crap attitude had improved since the departure of Souness he would be selected by Roeder, would he not? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 16, 2006, 11:16:07 AM Quote from: Jaehyun on April 16, 2006, 09:46:08 AM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 07:32:02 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:58:12 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:52:29 PM Quote from: Wullie on April 15, 2006, 06:39:57 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 06:37:46 PM I think every player at the club has improved since sourness went........except Luque. Why? He's only played 71 minutes? You only count minutes on the pitch? Why's that? You're not taking into account the manager being in contact with all of the players on a daily basis. On match days the fans see the evidence of the improvement in their attitude, fitness, general confidence and self belief on the field of play, but that's an accumulation of things going on every single day. It doesn't just happen on the field of play on a match day. The bloke above my initial post made a point that the next manager may get more from Luque, my post was prompted by that because we already have another manager here since the souness debacle. Roeder may only be temporary, but the rest of the players are responding positively to him. The manager selects the players based on what he sees day in, day out. Luque hasn't improved enough to be selected ahead of the likes of Ameobi and Chopra. Says something, that does. Given the improvement in the rest of the players and the team in general, the answer isn't to suggest that Roeder is an idiot, not that you would say that Wullie but this 'rod' bloke may do, as he likes to throw the 'idiot' word around when he has no constructive point to make. You may not agree, but I expect you to at least understand what I'm on about. Cheers So you're saying Luque hasn't improved, but you have no actual evidence of this other than Glenn Roeder's say so? When we see Luque on the field of play for more than a few brief cameos at the arse end of games, that's when he should be judged on whether he has improved under Roeder or not. The team as a whole has improved and we're playing much better stuff, you can't possibly judge in training how he responds to 90 minutes of good football in a real game. He's been injured for the last few weeks as well, otherwise he may have been chosen. Has Roeder said that, Wullie? I'm not aware of him saying that, perhaps he has. I'm going by the simple fact that if the bloke had done enough to be selected he would have been selected. It is the actions of Roeder I'm going by, not bluster. If Luque's generally crap attitude had improved since the departure of Souness he would be selected by Roeder, would he not? which is of course, the right thing for him to SAY. Whether or not its true is another matter. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythetoon on April 16, 2006, 04:25:39 PM Quote from: NE5 on April 16, 2006, 01:54:22 AM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 15, 2006, 09:42:56 PM Blaming the club, as usual mate. A player having no commitment is nothing to do with the club, it's a personal issue for the player. We've had plenty of foreign players succeed at this club and there have been loads of foreigners flop at others, even the clubs you mention. As for " wild conjecture and speculation ".....are you telling me that these gutless performances we've seen whenever Luque has appeared are just a bad dream, or something? HTT...he's right. You are looking for, or insinuating an underlying reason that doesn't exist, treading the line of the Shepherd bashers. Blaming him for everything. It's a load of crap mate, it really is. If a player doesn't perform to the extent that luque hasn't, being the age he is, the experience he has, there is no point looking anywhere else other than the player himself. I simply can't believe that you of all people have been so taken in by the Shepherd bashers you are prepared to blame him, like them, for anything. It's like living in Scotland and finding the locals blaming the English for the bad weather. He isn't good enough, or rather, he isn't mentally alert or adaptable enough to want to make the change. Which is the same thing in the end. People have to accept responsibility for their own actions, and in this case a footballer has to accept the same for his lack of performance. Is he a man or a mouse.......and I know the answer to that one ....... You would have a point if I had of blamed Shepherd for Luque... As for the player accepting some kind of responsibility, I agree, only he can really become the player he was signed for at the end of the day, but I'm not gonna write him off or call him names over the internet simply because he hasn't shown much heart or application thus far - I don't fucking blame him for one and I'd rather use my time to look at and ask questions as to why he hasn't made an impact yet. I already know most of the answers; he's unhappy, hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip and got off to a shocking start with an injury that set him back on and off the pitch quite a bit. The last thing you want when struggling to adapt is free time, free time to sit and self wallow, you want to be playing. He was denied that through no choice of his own and his whole fitness was handled badly by the club, i.e. rushed back and as a subsequence he was afraid to play in fear of causing further damage to his not yet fully healed hamstring, which of course looked like he didn't care, wasn't prepared to sweat blood and tears thus the negative reaction from fans and the local media. All of which has created a bubble around him. I doubt he trusts the club, I bet he wants to be back home, and I bet he regrets moving to Newcastled. "I'm a footballer - get me out of here". Now, as a 9.5m player, one of considerable talent, the onus lies with the club to get the best out of him, to get a return on the investment - that takes time and lots of patience. If after a certain period of time trying all kinds of methods, Luque still hasn't adapted, then get rid. Get rid now though and no self respecting top class foreign player will want to sign for our club and our ability to keep hold of the likes of N'Zogbia may well deminish because everyone, whether you're an Alan Shearer or a Luque, whether you're poor or rich, wants to be looked after. Its time our club/fans stopped getting into hysterics when a player shows a lack of heart or doesn't succeed in the first 5 minutes, **** me it happens all over with most clubs, some of the best players in the world have shown a lack of heart following a big money move to a foreign country, yet the best club's and the best managers 9/10 usually get their money worth. In the end... We just bomb them out and piss and moan on message boards about how unfair it is, getting worse than Liverpool fans for our self pitty, our bleating. Just my thoughts anyway. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 16, 2006, 04:37:37 PM Quote from: NE5 on April 15, 2006, 07:37:35 PM Quote from: SLK on April 15, 2006, 09:15:44 AM Honestly, if I was the manager, I would give the first half for Shearer against Wigan and then put Luque for 45 minutes in the second half...Shearer can't play two 90 minutes games in three days...Too much...The best time to give Luque some run in the team... Glad you weren;t the manager today then Why is that...I did say Shearer should be in for the first half but be replaced in the second half...Also Luque might have made the score be more like 4-1 to NUFC... ;) Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: SLK on April 16, 2006, 04:52:19 PM Quote from: Northern Monkey on April 16, 2006, 12:29:34 AM I don't claim to know any of that bollolx. All i know is what i've seen with my own two eyes. And that is a player who has not been up to standard. What you have seen of Luque from you own two eyes in less than 100 minutes action when the games when the whole team was playing crap and instructions were to just defend or start volying the ball is NOT enough to judge Luque or any other player with the background that Luque has...He is a proven top class footballer regardless whether that is in Premiera Lega or wherever...A good player is a good player but he might need time to adjust himself and 100 minutes is not enough especially if you take into account that those games were already decided some 40 minutes ago and the whole team was crap and not good enough for any service for our forwards... Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 06:09:29 PM Quote from: Howaythetoon on April 16, 2006, 04:25:39 PM You would have a point if I had of blamed Shepherd for Luque... As for the player accepting some kind of responsibility, I agree, only he can really become the player he was signed for at the end of the day, but I'm not gonna write him off or call him names over the internet simply because he hasn't shown much heart or application thus far - I don't ****ing blame him for one and I'd rather use my time to look at and ask questions as to why he hasn't made an impact yet. I already know most of the answers; he's unhappy, hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip and got off to a shocking start with an injury that set him back on and off the pitch quite a bit. The last thing you want when struggling to adapt is free time, free time to sit and self wallow, you want to be playing. He was denied that through no choice of his own and his whole fitness was handled badly by the club, i.e. rushed back and as a subsequence he was afraid to play in fear of causing further damage to his not yet fully healed hamstring, which of course looked like he didn't care, wasn't prepared to sweat blood and tears thus the negative reaction from fans and the local media. All of which has created a bubble around him. I doubt he trusts the club, I bet he wants to be back home, and I bet he regrets moving to Newcastled. "I'm a footballer - get me out of here". Now, as a 9.5m player, one of considerable talent, the onus lies with the club to get the best out of him, to get a return on the investment - that takes time and lots of patience. If after a certain period of time trying all kinds of methods, Luque still hasn't adapted, then get rid. Get rid now though and no self respecting top class foreign player will want to sign for our club and our ability to keep hold of the likes of N'Zogbia may well deminish because everyone, whether you're an Alan Shearer or a Luque, whether you're poor or rich, wants to be looked after. Its time our club/fans stopped getting into hysterics when a player shows a lack of heart or doesn't succeed in the first 5 minutes, **** me it happens all over with most clubs, some of the best players in the world have shown a lack of heart following a big money move to a foreign country, yet the best club's and the best managers 9/10 usually get their money worth. In the end... We just bomb them out and piss and moan on message boards about how unfair it is, getting worse than Liverpool fans for our self pitty, our bleating. Just my thoughts anyway. I don't believe you're being serious. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythetoon on April 16, 2006, 06:53:38 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 06:09:29 PM Quote from: Howaythetoon on April 16, 2006, 04:25:39 PM You would have a point if I had of blamed Shepherd for Luque... As for the player accepting some kind of responsibility, I agree, only he can really become the player he was signed for at the end of the day, but I'm not gonna write him off or call him names over the internet simply because he hasn't shown much heart or application thus far - I don't ****ing blame him for one and I'd rather use my time to look at and ask questions as to why he hasn't made an impact yet. I already know most of the answers; he's unhappy, hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip and got off to a shocking start with an injury that set him back on and off the pitch quite a bit. The last thing you want when struggling to adapt is free time, free time to sit and self wallow, you want to be playing. He was denied that through no choice of his own and his whole fitness was handled badly by the club, i.e. rushed back and as a subsequence he was afraid to play in fear of causing further damage to his not yet fully healed hamstring, which of course looked like he didn't care, wasn't prepared to sweat blood and tears thus the negative reaction from fans and the local media. All of which has created a bubble around him. I doubt he trusts the club, I bet he wants to be back home, and I bet he regrets moving to Newcastled. "I'm a footballer - get me out of here". Now, as a 9.5m player, one of considerable talent, the onus lies with the club to get the best out of him, to get a return on the investment - that takes time and lots of patience. If after a certain period of time trying all kinds of methods, Luque still hasn't adapted, then get rid. Get rid now though and no self respecting top class foreign player will want to sign for our club and our ability to keep hold of the likes of N'Zogbia may well deminish because everyone, whether you're an Alan Shearer or a Luque, whether you're poor or rich, wants to be looked after. Its time our club/fans stopped getting into hysterics when a player shows a lack of heart or doesn't succeed in the first 5 minutes, **** me it happens all over with most clubs, some of the best players in the world have shown a lack of heart following a big money move to a foreign country, yet the best club's and the best managers 9/10 usually get their money worth. In the end... We just bomb them out and piss and moan on message boards about how unfair it is, getting worse than Liverpool fans for our self pitty, our bleating. Just my thoughts anyway. I don't believe you're being serious. You can't believe it or you don't want to debate the merits of my post or the issues raised? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Taylor27 on April 16, 2006, 07:25:51 PM Quote from: Howaythetoon on April 16, 2006, 06:53:38 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 06:09:29 PM Quote from: Howaythetoon on April 16, 2006, 04:25:39 PM You would have a point if I had of blamed Shepherd for Luque... As for the player accepting some kind of responsibility, I agree, only he can really become the player he was signed for at the end of the day, but I'm not gonna write him off or call him names over the internet simply because he hasn't shown much heart or application thus far - I don't ****ing blame him for one and I'd rather use my time to look at and ask questions as to why he hasn't made an impact yet. I already know most of the answers; he's unhappy, hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip and got off to a shocking start with an injury that set him back on and off the pitch quite a bit. The last thing you want when struggling to adapt is free time, free time to sit and self wallow, you want to be playing. He was denied that through no choice of his own and his whole fitness was handled badly by the club, i.e. rushed back and as a subsequence he was afraid to play in fear of causing further damage to his not yet fully healed hamstring, which of course looked like he didn't care, wasn't prepared to sweat blood and tears thus the negative reaction from fans and the local media. All of which has created a bubble around him. I doubt he trusts the club, I bet he wants to be back home, and I bet he regrets moving to Newcastled. "I'm a footballer - get me out of here". Now, as a 9.5m player, one of considerable talent, the onus lies with the club to get the best out of him, to get a return on the investment - that takes time and lots of patience. If after a certain period of time trying all kinds of methods, Luque still hasn't adapted, then get rid. Get rid now though and no self respecting top class foreign player will want to sign for our club and our ability to keep hold of the likes of N'Zogbia may well deminish because everyone, whether you're an Alan Shearer or a Luque, whether you're poor or rich, wants to be looked after. Its time our club/fans stopped getting into hysterics when a player shows a lack of heart or doesn't succeed in the first 5 minutes, **** me it happens all over with most clubs, some of the best players in the world have shown a lack of heart following a big money move to a foreign country, yet the best club's and the best managers 9/10 usually get their money worth. In the end... We just bomb them out and piss and moan on message boards about how unfair it is, getting worse than Liverpool fans for our self pitty, our bleating. Just my thoughts anyway. I don't believe you're being serious. You can't believe it or you don't want to debate the merits of my post or the issues raised? Soopafan Rule #562: Ignore any valid good points that disagree with your line of argument, even if the point maker goes to matches. Just rewrite your opinions in a slightly different way. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: alpal78 on April 16, 2006, 08:02:25 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 07:35:02 AM Quote from: alpal78 on April 16, 2006, 12:12:24 AM Quote from: JamesD on April 16, 2006, 12:03:10 AM i vote for no more talk about luque untill we've seen enough of him to judge properly. people who acutally play football no that it can take a lot of time to find form. thats true for everyone. add to that the fact that he is in a new country, having to be with all new people, coming off the worst injury of his career and playing a style of football very different from the kind hes been playing all of his life. people need to get off his back and quit giving him crap when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. lets have this conversation after he gets a good run of games in, and if he is shit, i'll say so, but dont judge him off of the little amount of time hes gotten this year. Sounds very reasonable but it wont be long before the football experts tell you that they already know based on what little they've seen of Luque that he: a) has no heart for NUFC b) is lazy in trainings coz messiah Roader doesnt pick him in games although strangely enough seems to praise him almost everytime interviewed. Just cant imagine any other possible reason for his exclusion such as maybe Roader wanting to give him more time to adapt and a brand new season to start afresh. Nah much easier to just say that he is lazy and is a waste of space. c) "just wont cut it in the EPL" Those with opposing views to your own could just as easily post in the same sarcastic fashion about 'experts', blah blah blah. But they don't, only you do that. Gosh, you should really lighten up, like u said this is just a forum son :lol: For the record, I dont think those who wants to reserve their judgement on Luque till we see more of him can be called experts either sarcastically or otherwise. But those who can make a definitive judgement that a top player is not gonna make it in the EPL after watching him for just 71 minutes certainly deserve that 'title'. Thats less time than what a professional scout takes (usually 3-5 full matches) to decide on whether a foreign player can adapt. Anyway instead of bickering on the words I used, why not try addressing the excellent points brought up by Howaythetoon or explain why you choose to assume the worst of Luque (that he is lazy and has no heart for NUFC....etc) just because he is not being picked by Roader to play, as there could very well be other legitimate reasons as I've explained in my earlier posting. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 16, 2006, 08:28:37 PM Quote from: SLK on April 16, 2006, 04:37:37 PM Quote from: NE5 on April 15, 2006, 07:37:35 PM Quote from: SLK on April 15, 2006, 09:15:44 AM Honestly, if I was the manager, I would give the first half for Shearer against Wigan and then put Luque for 45 minutes in the second half...Shearer can't play two 90 minutes games in three days...Too much...The best time to give Luque some run in the team... Glad you weren;t the manager today then Why is that...I did say Shearer should be in for the first half but be replaced in the second half...Also Luque might have made the score be more like 4-1 to NUFC... ;) but he mightn't, and didn't Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: NE5 on April 16, 2006, 08:30:44 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 16, 2006, 08:02:25 PM Quote from: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 07:35:02 AM Quote from: alpal78 on April 16, 2006, 12:12:24 AM Quote from: JamesD on April 16, 2006, 12:03:10 AM i vote for no more talk about luque untill we've seen enough of him to judge properly. people who acutally play football no that it can take a lot of time to find form. thats true for everyone. add to that the fact that he is in a new country, having to be with all new people, coming off the worst injury of his career and playing a style of football very different from the kind hes been playing all of his life. people need to get off his back and quit giving him crap when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. lets have this conversation after he gets a good run of games in, and if he is shit, i'll say so, but dont judge him off of the little amount of time hes gotten this year. Sounds very reasonable but it wont be long before the football experts tell you that they already know based on what little they've seen of Luque that he: a) has no heart for NUFC b) is lazy in trainings coz messiah Roader doesnt pick him in games although strangely enough seems to praise him almost everytime interviewed. Just cant imagine any other possible reason for his exclusion such as maybe Roader wanting to give him more time to adapt and a brand new season to start afresh. Nah much easier to just say that he is lazy and is a waste of space. c) "just wont cut it in the EPL" Those with opposing views to your own could just as easily post in the same sarcastic fashion about 'experts', blah blah blah. But they don't, only you do that. Gosh, you should really lighten up, like u said this is just a forum son :lol: For the record, I dont think those who wants to reserve their judgement on Luque till we see more of him can be called experts either sarcastically or otherwise. But those who can make a definitive judgement that a top player is not gonna make it in the EPL after watching him for just 71 minutes certainly deserve that 'title'. Thats less time than what a professional scout takes (usually 3-5 full matches) to decide on whether a foreign player can adapt. Anyway instead of bickering on the words I used, why not try addressing the excellent points brought up by Howaythetoon or explain why you choose to assume the worst of Luque (that he is lazy and has no heart for NUFC....etc) just because he is not being picked by Roader to play, as there could very well be other legitimate reasons as I've explained in my earlier posting. the point you constantly miss, is it depends what you look for in players, you can see if they have what you think it takes just as easily in 10 minutes sometimes, as you can in 10 games And personally, after his first shit game against Manu, I knew he wasn't up to it for me Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 08:54:57 PM Quote from: Taylor27 on April 16, 2006, 07:25:51 PM Soopafan Rule #562: Ignore any valid good points that disagree with your line of argument, even if the point maker goes to matches. Just rewrite your opinions in a slightly different way. Explain? Don't know what you're babbling about, tbh. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Baggio on April 16, 2006, 09:02:22 PM One thing thats always puzzled me is why wouldn't Freddie stump up the £6.5 million Fulham wanted for Boa Morte but was happy to fork out £9.5 million to sign Luque? :?
Could the rumours about Freddie signing players of his choice be true? We all know how he liked to associate himself with the former Madrid chairman who happened to be a big admirer of Luque... 2+2=5? Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 09:04:10 PM Quote from: alpal78 on April 16, 2006, 08:02:25 PM For the record, I dont think those who wants to reserve their judgement on Luque till we see more of him can be called experts either sarcastically or otherwise. But those who can make a definitive judgement that a top player is not gonna make it in the EPL after watching him for just 71 minutes certainly deserve that 'title'. Thats less time than what a professional scout takes (usually 3-5 full matches) to decide on whether a foreign player can adapt. Anyway instead of bickering on the words I used, why not try addressing the excellent points brought up by Howaythetoon or explain why you choose to assume the worst of Luque (that he is lazy and has no heart for NUFC....etc) just because he is not being picked by Roader to play, as there could very well be other legitimate reasons as I've explained in my earlier posting. Not sure it's worth replying while you insist on posting a personal snipe in almost every post. Anyway, here goes...... First bit in bold.....Luque is not a top player. Second bit in bold.....I didn't assume the worst, although I've seen Deportivo a number of times I'd never noticed him. I knew nowt about him until I saw him playing for Newcastle. When I watch other Spanish teams I can see who the real top players are. Third bit in bold.... You're right, there could be other legitimate reasons why Roeder isn't selecting Luque, it's just that you don't acknowledge the possiblity that it's because his attitude is shite. Note I don't put personal snipes toward you in my reply. If you respond, please try to cut out the sarcasm and keep to the point of the debate. That's all I want to do, it will be better if you do the same. Title: Re: What is the latest news on Luque ? Post by: Howaythelads on April 16, 2006, 09:29:06 PM I've been asked why I didn't reply to the post from HTT, why I asked HTT if he was being serious. Well very sorry like, but I read it and there was just so much contentious stuff in there I wondered if he was being serious. That's why I posted what I did. I've read a lot of good posts over the last few years from HTT, what I read above is from a different person.
Anyway, as a 'deal' is being made of my non reply, I'll reply here. I won't quote it though, I'll just make my comments. HTT doesn't want to blame Luque for Luque's lack of heart. Well I think the only person responsible for not showing any desire to play for a club rests with the player. To suggest it doesn't, is in my view, a total nonsense. It's about being a professional. It's about having personal pride and integrity. There may sometimes be an excuse, but it's gone on for too long. As for Luque's injury being a cause of his lack of heart, well as far as I'm concerned it is not known for a fact that Luque was not fit when he came back. In any case it doesn't matter, even if he wasn't fully fit, this is still not a valid reason for a player to show no heart and desire to do his best for the team. Then HTT goes on about Luque not trusting the club!!! Incredible stuff. I don't give a shite if Luque trusts the club or not, but the fact that HTT is claiming Luque does not trust the club, that Luque doesn't want to be at the club, this is clearly admitting the Luque doesn't want to be here. HTT said it himself. Yet HTT is busy making excuses for Luque having regrets at signing a mega contract to play for this club. HTT also claims that as a "£9.5m player of considerable talent" that the onus lies with the club to get the best out of him. Well, I won't argue too much because a club manager should ALWAYS try to get the best out of every player. But it is not down to the club to get the player to show desire and heart. Getting the best from a player, and that player showing some passion for the shirt, are not the same thing. How many posts has HTT banged on about " playing for the shirt " etc etc? We've had many players used out of position who did not play particularly well under those circumstances, but they showed effort and heart. Luque doesn't. I also believe it is incredible to suggest that getting rid of Luque now may mean that we will struggle to sign any other foreigner. I also believe it is untrue that the club and fans get into hysterics when a player shows a lack of heart and doesn't succeed in the first 5 minutes. Total nonsense, in fact. Luque has generally been well supported despite his failings. That little lot is why I initially responded with my doubt about whether HTT was serious or not. Sorry, mate. Your ill will toward the Board and Fred in particular is clouding your judgement in a massive way.
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